Paul Allen B17 For Sale

[Warbird Kid]

The good news is Elon Musk is buying the entire collection.

The bad news is he’s taking it to Mars as a tourist attraction.

Fast forward to 2071 in Alba City on Mars...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-nRnddi7Q8
Skip tp 3:15 for Warbirds

[wendovertom]

$9mil for a plane that still needs to have 20% of its restoration done plus assembly? Doesn't seem to be particularly smart investment. If I had it, I think I'd be more inclined to buy a small cheaper group of Warbirds, SNJ, TBM, FM-2 & SBD(?).

Mac

I don't think that is an unreasonable price, as it's certainly "in the ballpark". The last time a flyable B-17 sold, which was last year, it went for 10.5 Million. That aircraft was a "common" G model and an older restoration and not at all on this level. Keep in mind, that this B-17 project, once completed, will be an extremely rare "E" model, none of which fly today. Additionally, it has been restored to the highest standards and would have been the most authentic, accurate B-17 flying had Allen finished it. With all of this in mind, I don't think 9 Million is unreasonable, even if it needs another 1 to 2 Million for completion. Remember, the B-17 is getting rarer and rarer by the minute. Just a few years ago, there were 13 B-17's flyable worldwide. Now there are only 8, with others likely to be grounded in the future for various reasons. Any B-17, including this one, will only go up in value from this point forward, particularly if it is restored and kept in airworthy condition.

I believe it's way overpriced, considering the amount of work necessary to complete what will be an experimental category B-17. And also a gamble. B-17's are only worth the 6 - 8 Million price tag if there is either a) a deep pocket owner willing to fly it, or 2) a FAA ride program to operate it under. Without these, they become very expensive museum exhibits, nowhere near the asking price.

My guess is that the price is set to recover the investment in it, which should give you a clue as to how much additional cash it will take to complete.

Not that I have ANY experience but Chuck's comment makes sense - someone who does NOT care/understand about warbirds just trying to break even on an investment. And if its anything like car restoration, the last 20% takes 80% of the money - LOL

Tom P.

[Matt Gunsch]

Probably not a complete list,
12355 2682 BOEING B17-E VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
11105 5 C A S A 2.111 VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
54FH CCF/R32007 CANADIAN CAR & FOUNDRY HWKR HURRICANEMKXIIA VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
3712 3712 CURTISS JN4D VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
2689 194 CURTISS WRIGHT P-40C VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
711AF 711 DEHAVILLAND DHC-6-300 VULCAN AIRCRAFT INC
959TV TV959 DEHAVILLAND AIRCRAFT CO LTD DH 98 MOSQUITO T III VULCAN AIRCRAFT INC
436FS 4362 FIESELER COMPANY F1-156-C2 VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
189FW 2100 FOCKE WULF FW189-A1 VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
190D 174013 FOCKE WULF TA-152 VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
19027 0151227 FOCKE WULF FW 190-A5 VULCAN AIRCRAFT INC
700G 88303 GOODYEAR FG-1D VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
79863 79863 GRUMMAN F6F-5 VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
650AF 6089 GULFSTREAM AEROSPACE CORP GVI (G650) VULCAN AIRCRAFT INC
112VW 305401 ILYUSHIN ILYUSHIN IL-2M3 VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
38LL AAF 42-104088 LOCKHEED-CONFEDERATE AIRFORCE P-38 VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
342FH 1342 MESSERSCHMITT BF 109E VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
94503 T-2-4012 MESSERSCHMITT ME 262A VULCAN AIRCRAFT INC
7803S 468 MIKOYAN GUREVICH MIG 21 UM VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
7803Z 1904 MIKOYAN GUREVICH MIG-21R VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
1303 1303 MITSUBISHI A6M5-52 VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
3852 3852 MITSUBISHI A6M3ZERO VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
652Z 4400 MITSUBISHI A6M5-52 VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
750N 750 NAKAJIMA KI-43-1B VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
4912 49-1217 NORTH AMERICAN F-86A VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
41123 44-30254 NORTH AMERICAN B-25J VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
723FH 44-72364 NORTH AMERICAN P-51D VULCAN AIRCRAFT INC
7459 2421014 POLIKARPOV I-16 TYPE 24 VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
46GU 641543 POLIKARPOV PO-2 VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
6599V 10586 REPUBLIC F-84G VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
7159Z 45-49406 REPUBLIC P-47D VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
614VC AR614 VICKERS/SUPERMARINE SPITFIRE Mk Vc VULCAN WARBIRDS INC
19TB A35-17 VOUGHT-THUNDERBIRD AVN INC F-8 VULCAN AIRCRAFT INC
37TB A35-30 VOUGHT-THUNDERBIRD AVN INC F-8 VULCAN AIRCRAFT INC

[p51]

The funny part is that this was the biggest secret in the field for years. I encountered one of the guys working on it at an Olympia airshow a few years back and he said, "We don't talk about the status. Ever."
That they took this long to make so little progress, speaks to all the other projects that apparently took priority as anyone could have done a museum quality restoration on this B-17 many years ago.
I'm not shocked to see it's for sale.

[TAdan]

I wonder whats up with the Betty from PoF.

[Chris Brame]

Great to see all those photos at last of this once super-secret project, plus the detailed history.
I guess it will change the odds on which E model will fly first - my money was solidly on Desert Rat/Tangerine, but now...?

[old iron]

Probably not a complete list,

Thanks Matt; first time I have seen any substantive list for this collection.

Is there any particular reason why the Ju-87 Stuka is not included here?

Can anyone else add additions to this list?

Last edited by old iron on Tue May 25, 2021 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Matt Gunsch]

Probably not a complete list,

Thanks Matt; first time I have seen any substantive list for this collection.

Is there any particular reason why the Ju-87 Stuka is not included here?

An anyone else add additions to this list?

That is all that was in the FAA database, unless they had another name I am not aware of

[hurricane_yank]

Sadly I thought Paul Allen would do more to protect his collection after he was gone...guess not.

[Michel Lemieux]

Also worth noting that the original Mosquito TV959 airframe is for sale too https://www.platinumfighters.com/invent ... -mosquito-

As is the FHCAM A6M Model 52 project:
https://www.platinumfighters.com/invent ... ro-or-zeke)

The Mossie is a valid link.

The Zero is a dead one.

is this the 2 rebuilt seaters? Or another project?

Also...anyone knows about the FW-189?

Cheers.

[Kyleb]

As is the FHCAM A6M Model 52 project:
https://www.platinumfighters.com/invent ... ro-or-zeke)

The Zero is a dead one.

is this the 2 rebuilt seaters? Or another project?

Cheers.

The Zero is one that was flown in the US on post-war tours. It was wrecked here in Atlanta and ultimately ended up on outdoor display in an unusual museum near downtown. I saw it there around 1990. It disappeared a couple of years later, and it turns out that Don Whittington had bought it, but hadn't done anything with it.

The interesting thing is it was groundlooped a year or so after the war, was put in the NAS Atlanta dump, and was retrieved from that dump for donation a year or two later. In the interim, it had some cosmetic repairs to make it more display worthy at an open house.

I think there is more to the story. When I saw it at the Atlanta museum, it appeared to have been victim of one of those "pay a buck, take a whack with an axe" fundraisers that people normally do with old cars. It had obvious chop marks all over it. That's why (I think) it was in such poor shape upon leaving NAS Atlanta. Who knew in 1946/47 that a damaged Zero would be an extremely valuable artifact 75 years later.

Last edited by Kyleb on Tue May 25, 2021 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Warbirdnerd]

Also worth noting that the original Mosquito TV959 airframe is for sale too https://www.platinumfighters.com/invent ... -mosquito-

As is the FHCAM A6M Model 52 project:
https://www.platinumfighters.com/invent ... ro-or-zeke)

The Mossie is a valid link.

The Zero is a dead one.

is this the 2 rebuilt seaters? Or another project?

Also...anyone knows about the FW-189?

Cheers.

Does this link for the Zero work? https://www.platinumfighters.com/invent ... ro-or-zeke)

[JohnTerrell]

I've shared this link here before, but perhaps worth sharing again - this forum thread has a few photos of the B-17 when it was still complete and airworthy, taken after it arrived at Arlington, WA for Paul Allen back in 1999: https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums ... -42-29782/

[JimH]

Given the volatile economy we are experiencing there are only a couple people I know that are actively looking for a B-17...Yagen being one. The $9m price tag is nuts, but given the 'rumors' of how Paul Allen was bent over on a lot of projects I'm sure this is a play for a realistic ROI. I think $4 million is a realistic price point. It will take a solid $4-5m to get it flying from here for an owner that has deep enough pockets to foot the consumable bills...gas, oil, insurance, spares. I don't see a ride program in it's future, nor do I see an affordable prognosis for a long term ride program in general across the board. The fighters will get snapped up quick...there have been some recent moves that lead me to believe there will be some gap filling going on very soon. While it's sad and kind of tragic, they will go to good homes.

my .02

[p51]

I'll never forget my last visit there, one of the most ironic conversations I ever heard took place.
A guy I overheard was on speaker phone talking with a family member. He told the other guy that he had to come see the place when he was coming through the area for some RV roadtrip in a couple of months. I clearly heard the voice at the other end say, "Nah, that's a few miles out of our way. That's Paul Allen's old collection; it'll be there when I'm retired to go check it out then."
In less than a year, the museum was closed for good. I'm sure the guy is kicking himself now.
Like a good pal of mine warned me when I was kid, "Go see/ride it while you can!"
Even the biggest of collections and museums can vanish overnight.