Paul Allen B17 For Sale

[menards]

It's all about money. What they are asking and who is willing to spend it. The list is short. The money he spent on restorations was far and above any restoration in the last 25 years. I would guess the "A" list types, the FW-190, the 262, and the Stuka are going to be north of $10m ea.. The American fighters, when compared to the current market value, tack on another $1-2m or more. Probably true for the British fighters as well. It boils down to how bad and how fast they want them gone. I seriously doubt the B-17 will find a buyer at that price. The economy is tanking, inflation is here and warbirds will diminish in priority. If gas and insurance prices continue to soar it will be even more prohibitive except or the uber wealthy. I hate to be negative but I saw it back in 2008-9 the last time the market took a 'correction'. We rolled in to Reno with the tour and gas was $7 a gallon. It took 3 years for that to calm down...we may be facing the same type of event now...I hope. The push to eliminate fossil fuels makes owning a flyable B-17 less attractive as a long term investment. Buy low, sell high isn't just a concept for the stock market.

Asking price on the XP-82 has come down by $4M since it first went on the market.

[Kyleb]

The economy is tanking, inflation is here and warbirds will diminish in priority.

The economy is booming at the moment, which is what is causing inflation. Supply and demand. Lots of demand, and the supply chains are behind because the rebound from COVID has happened faster than most anyone predicted.

I'm not sure if any of that will or won't impact warbird prices. The folks who can afford the nice ones can probably afford them in an up or down economy.

[Michel Lemieux]

I normally stay away from these......But I'll bite for my take on this.

But I'll throw out a few questions first.....

- Do you think that the pool of available cash passionates that love and are willing to spend $ on the birds as we all dream do will shrink & dry out? I think not to 100% but it will for sure shrink a lot. The next generation has not been exposed to the same time based context background as we have. It will change for sure & they will spend their $ differently. AOK by my book.

- Do you think that these artefact (flying or not) will carry the same value in 10, 20, 30+ or 100 years later? As an investment? Again....no clue or answer from my end.

My point...I am just glad that point in time I got to see within my life time so many great restoration, recreations & preservation effort accomplishments. After that....will not be my call...I will not be around

Our passion is ours....but the next generation with the same passion as we have will for sure have a lot less headcounts overall. Hence the importance of preserving history and educating when prevalent.

My point? At 55.....just happy to see another potential rare B-17 close to fly available for someone else to pick the torch.

Cheers and have a great weekend all.

[phil65]

It's like anything you buy and put money into, don't expect to get it all back. The next owner might be simply looking for an airworthy B-17, not a museum piece.

Phil

[Jim MacDonald]

The Platinum site now has the sale of the Zero "Pending". I hope it ends up as a flyer.

Mac

[marine air]

Their website is somewhat inconclusive. Does the collection have a Wildcat, Hellcat and Avenger? Any other Grumman’s?

[marine air]

edit.

Last edited by marine air on Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

[JohnB]

To state the obvious...
There are plenty of operators who can own a warbird ..L-4, Stearman, T-6, T-28, or even most SE fighters.
Yes, there is a huge gulf of prices between a Grasshopper and Mustang, but all are generally do-able if you have the money and a modicum of talent and desire.

When you get to multi engine types it's a whole new ball game. You need a co-pilot, increased system complexity...The extra fuel burn is just the start of the extra costs.

But to operate something like a B-17...crew requirments, big hangar, four maintenance intensive engines, big time hydraulic systems, structural complexity and rarity (enough to make a C-47 or B-25 look simple and cheao) means you better have a full time crew chief.

In other words, a successful guy can operate a typical SE warbird, he it a Mustang or Avenger.
I bet there are a couple hundred guys in my medium sized city who could afford one.
But with a B-17 you need much more than just money to fly it.

But to operate a B-17...The list of people or organizations who want one, can afford to fly it and have the willingness to do everything it takes to fly it...that's a very short list.

Even in this country with 300 million people and a lot of wealth, I bet the number is in the single digits.

Last edited by JohnB on Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Jim MacDonald]

Their website is somewhat inconclusive. Does the collection have a Wildcat, Hellcat and Avenger? Any other Grumman’s?

Marine Air, what are you referring to? The "Pending" sale of the Zero to its new owner or something else earlier in the thread?

Thanks,

Mac

[marine air]

I wasn't referring as much to the Platinum website as Paul Allen's museum's website. It is somewhat of a mystery to me what they have on primary display, what is in their restoration shop, what's in storage and what is farmed out being restored offsite somewhere. Their website is inconclusive.

[marine air]

edit.

[Jim MacDonald]

Thanks for the reply, Marine Air.

I didn't know that Allen had a website containing his warbird info.

Mac

[Zac Yates]

Well there's this website: http://flyingheritage.org/

But I seriously doubt there's anything official online listing what is in the collection and where it's located.

[marine air]

When Frank Ryder (collector of WW I replicas) died and when David Tallichet passed (owned over 100 WW II aircraft and parts, memorabilia) there was a list sent out. It had items listed and their asking price. For example, Tallichet had a Buchon for sale for around $90k and a P-51D for $700k.
For those of us that might be buyers, it's important to know what is even there. The estate has a right to do it however they want. My guess is that Mr. Allen probably has things we don't even know about. Aircraft stored overseas or in workshops somewhere. I know the FW-189 isn't listed anywhere but we know it's in storage at the FHC collection. What else might be available, do they have a T-6 for example?

[deskpro590]

I for one would love to see all of the aircraft they sell go to good homes. As for the B-17, it would be cool if Cavanaugh could pick that up and complete it to airworthy status (they did a wonderful job helping Fifi get back in the air). I know there are already 2 flying B-17s in my State, but there are none in the DFW area (now home base of the CAF). Wishful thinking on my part, but one can dream...