Trying to find info on 1969 USN F-4J loss

[K5DH]

A family friend's father, LCDR Allen Dean Proctor, perished in the 24 Oct 1969 loss of a USN F-4J Phantom II of VF-31 "Tomcatters" embarked on USS Saratoga on a Med cruise. I'm told this was a nighttime training mission. I'm trying to find out the BuNo of the aircraft he was flying, and maybe a photo of it. According to the Cruise Book from that cruise, LCDR Proctor was the squadron's maintenance officer. I've done a lot of internet searching, but I can find scant little info about the incident. Leads appreciated. LCDR Proctor and many of his family members are interred at Arlington.

[mike furline]

Found this, dates are close enough that an accident/search party/declared dead could be a possibility.
http://joebaugher.com/navy_serials/thirdseries19.html

F4H-1 152966 (MSN 1285) wth VF-32 either crashed into sea after bad launch from USS John F. Kennedy Oct 19, 1969, or else crashed into Aegean Sea after collision with F-4 155837. Need more details.

F-4J 155837 (MSN 3175) with VF-3) w/o on USS Saratoga Oct 19, 1969, or crashed into Aegean Sea after collision with F-4 152966. Need more details.
I believe the "VF-3)" is a typo and should be VF-31.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/skyhawkpc/8228570684/

Squadrons on the 1969-70 Saratoga Cruise,
https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv60-69/index.html
https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv60-69/267.htm

VA-75
VA-46
VA-113
VF-31
VF-103
RVAH-1
VAW-125
VAH-10 Det. 60

Last edited by mike furline on Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

[quemerford]

F-4B 152966 is listed as an Oceana loss with VF-32.

I'm looking at the excellent 'Strikes' by Sid Nanson (Mach III publishing, 2003) but nothing showing for that date. I can only assume that the aircraft was recovered and stricken at a later date?

[quemerford]

These are the only “aboard Saratoga” losses I can find:

151470 F-4B VF-31 20JAN65
155513 F-4J VF-31 14JUN76
155842 F-4J VF-103 16OCT70
157275 F-4J VF-103 13APR80

And the only other VF-31 loss listed:

155571 F-4J VF-31 stricken Oceana 02DEC68 following damage on 29NOV68

That seems a low number, but why 'your' aircraft is missing I have no idea.

[quemerford]

In case it adds any useful information, this is a cutting from the Jacksonville Courier of 28 October 1969:

[K5DH]

Thanks for the info, guys!

Mike Furline: My friend mentioned that the crash was the result of a mid-air collision, so 152966 and 155837 may be the aircraft involved.

Quemerford: The newspaper clipping confirms much of what she told me, though she said her dad was a pilot. Maybe since it was a training mission he was flying in the back seat as an instructor? The pilot listed in the clipping was a young pup.

I'm going to keep digging for more tidbits.

[Andy Marden]

I don't think the losses of 152966 and 155837 are linked.
152966 was lost on 19Oct69 with VF-32
155837 was lost on 24Oct69 with VF-31 - so this is the subject aircraft
I am rather sceptical about their having been a mid-air collision, unless the second aircraft recovered safely, because surely the news article would have mentioned this fact.

[K5DH]

Andy, I'm with you on this. I also don't think this was a mid-air. My friend told me the crash was due to spatial disorientation (which is easy to believe, on a night training flight over the sea), but she also mentioned that there was a collision. I think it was probably only the loss of SA.

So it looks like 155837 was the subject aircraft. Found a photo here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/skyhawkpc/8228570684

[mike furline]

Andy, I'm with you on this. I also don't think this was a mid-air. My friend told me the crash was due to spatial disorientation (which is easy to believe, on a night training flight over the sea), but she also mentioned that there was a collision. I think it was probably only the loss of SA.

So it looks like 155837 was the subject aircraft. Found a photo here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/skyhawkpc/8228570684

You know I had that same photo linked in my response.

Last edited by mike furline on Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[quemerford]

I hope you manage to get to the bottom of this: accident report will be available from a variety of sources to put it beyond question. Please let us know the true story if you find out!