Warbird Pilots

[Randy Haskin]

Re: the question of where the next generation of warbird pilots will come from...

At some point, the warbird owners are going to have to cultivate new pilots. That will mean taking someone under your wing and mentoring them.

Having been (and still pretty much being) a kid behind the fenceline, I can tell ya there are plenty of younger folks who would love to fill the shoes of the current generation of warbird aviators. It's just going to take some effort to find them and mentor them into the safe, knowldegeable aviators we need them to be in order to pass the torch and keep the flame alive.

[Randy Haskin]

the bottom line was heavy prop time and lots of it plus round engine experience. These are things you won't find in your standard Mark 1 Mod O airline pilot.

These are things you won't find in many younger pilots at all these days! That's precisely what makes it tough to break into the world of warbirds.

I've got plenty of low, fast flying, formation flying, high performance dogfighting, handling real-world emergencies, dodging SAMs and AAA, even surviving student fighter pilots in my front seat who try and run jets together or into the dirt...all kinds of interesting flying experience...and none of that means jack to any of the insurers because it doesn't have a prop on the front or a tailwheel on the back.

I've wanted to be a warbird operator ever since I could see over the ropes at an airshow, so I've tried to seek out the jobs that could build experience for that. I tried to find flying jobs in the USAF that involved big piston aircraft with tailwheels, but alas...there haven't been any for a couple decades. So, outside of being a firebomber pilot, where is someone supposed to get this kind of experience these days??

Answer: from either your own pocketbook or from a benevolent mentor who is willing to foot some of the bill and take you along for the ride.

Last edited by Randy Haskin on Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Raven]

Finding a pilot's easy. Just wait around the aircraft. It's bait. Finding a good pilot takes longer, and an insurable one who you'd let the aircraft have a date with a bit longer still. But it's still just a matter of time and asking.

However I've NEVER heard of a warbird left on the ground (except due to date conflicts) for the lack of a driver, airframe.

The three questions asked by enthusiasts about restorations are the ones that don't matter: 1/ "When's it gonna fly?" 2/ "Who's gonna fly it?" 3/ "What ya gonna paint it as?"
1/ When it's ready, 2/ The most qualified applicant of a long list, 3/ As we think best but it won't affect it's safety or or serviceability, will it?

Finding qualified engineers who'll be fed other than raw meat, that's the trick.

[FG1D Pilot]

The saying " If you build it, they will come" comes to mind. I have offers almost every day from airline and military pilots. I know it's hard to get into, but I started in a J3 cub. Then started flying "L-birds" to shows and getting to know the big guys. The CAF is a way to get into tail draggers. Many units have "L-birds" and PTs. That's a way to get started. The CAF has long recognised the pilot shortage. and started a more "friendly" attitude towards the "new guy" to try to get him involved. The most important thing to all of this whoever you get involved with, is show your love of the warbirds and your desire to be around them doing whatever it takes. I have had many pilots get involved but drop out as soon as they have to clean a plane a few times. Everyone cleans the planes at CFM. If you fly it or ride, you pitch in to clean. Not much to ask, but you'd be suprised at the number that won't do it. That's why we have so few pilots. We adhere to the "Golden Rule". It doesn't work to be a part of the group if you let it be known you want to be a pilot. If you show enough desire, you'll be asked. I never asked to fly any aircraft. I have always been asked. I take that as a little personal pride.

[Randy Haskin]

If you fly it or ride, you pitch in to clean. Not much to ask, but you'd be suprised at the number that won't do it. That's why we have so few pilots. We adhere to the "Golden Rule". It doesn't work to be a part of the group if you let it be known you want to be a pilot. If you show enough desire, you'll be asked. I never asked to fly any aircraft. I have always been asked. I take that as a little personal pride.

Good words, Doug...thanks.

[C170BDan]

Re: the question of where the next generation of warbird pilots will come from...

At some point, the warbird owners are going to have to cultivate new pilots. That will mean taking someone under your wing and mentoring them.

I believe that there will be a round of new pilots coming in. But as was noted.... where will they come from? We will have to see how many owners want to take younger pilots under their wings. Having been around vintage and Warbird aircraft for about 15 years now I HAVE seen new pilots come online.

One thing that I have noticed recently is the way the aircraft have gone from private owners.... to large collections and museums.... and now we are starting to see a few of them return to private owners. More rare types will see more airshows if this continues. There are people with either the $$$ or the skills. It is just finding people with both that seems to be rare. So the $$$ people end up putting their trust in someone with the skills.

Not one to talk about my own skills... but I am almost up to 1000hrs of tailwheel time but VERY little "heavy" time. (Randy, you and I talked at Reno last year and I laughed at how different our aviation backgrounds are and how we both hope to work our way into Warbird flying! Different skills but neither set to jump right in and go.)

One great thing is that the current pilots are passing on their recommendations on what the "up and coming" need to do to build their skills. I express a big thank you to those of you who do pass on their knowledge!

At this point I have decided to just be patient. As time allows I will check out in the Stearman and T6. But until then I continue to keep up with my contacts who currently fly vintage aircraft. Am I worried about waiting too long??? Then these aircraft will be flown less and less? No.... I believe we will see these vintage aircraft fly for many years to come! So.... one day.... I'll fly them... in a formation with Randy... hopefully sooner rather than later!

[Jack Cook]

If you fly it or ride, you pitch in to clean. Not much to ask, but you'd be suprised at the number that won't do it

Amen, brother!
I've lost count of number of times I've been out there cleaning, scrubbing & pressure washing the T-6s and B-25 (deoiling the B-25 in particular BTW-man that stuff goes everywhere). Lots of rubberneckers and advice givers but no helpers. Lots of complainers where we go flying though! People would go to "Bomber Jim" and complain about the rides I was getting. He'd shake his head at them. Brad's experience at Olympia is a mirror image of mine. He did 99% of the work and got 99% of the rides. boy was there a lot of bitching about that so go figure!

[Jase]

One thing I've been doing lately is to try to give away the "ride opportunities" to folks who have worked hard, but maybe not done the "high profile" work like oil scrubbing. My thought is that it keeps those folks happy and interested.

One thing to remember is that if people think it's an ole boy network, and so-and-so always gets the rides, then they won't be around when you *really* need help.... Share the wealth.

[systemofadown1162]

Having been (and still pretty much being) a kid behind the fenceline, I can tell ya there are plenty of younger folks who would love to fill the shoes of the current generation of warbird aviators. It's just going to take some effort to find them and mentor them into the safe, knowldegeable aviators we need them to be in order to pass the torch and keep the flame alive.

Exactly, like me.

Last edited by systemofadown1162 on Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[bdk]

I bought and flew a Luscombe and a Stearman, and now I have a T-6 project. Hopefully some day I'll have enough experience and time to warrant a transition to someone else's fighter since I doubt I'll ever be able to afford one myself. For the time being I have chosen to work for $2/hour on my own plane. Once my goals are met in that respect, I'll go back to volunteering more.

It is hard to get your private license (or any ratings) through volunteerism. Most organizations don't have primary trainers available and wouldn't want to pay the insurance anyhow. My observation is that you need at least a commercial license and enough experience to be ready to transition into a T-6. Then get in line.

I personally do think it is a "good ole boy" network. The trick is to become a "good ole boy"!

[marine air]

That is a huge and complex question. Can't answer it myself and I get to fly warbirds. A few thoughts;
"The harder I work the luckier I get" Arnold Palmer. One of the greatest golfers of all times had to work at it. Ironically, his former chief pilot has about 5,000 hours of safe flying in the TF-51. His name is Lee Lauderback.

"Success is 98% perspiration and 2% inspiration. If you help degrease a B-25, or clean the plexiglas, the owner doesn't owe you a ride, but he will like you a lot. Ever notice the owner tends to take the people he likes to all the neat air shows?
The aviation community has a few notorious cheapskates and stingy types. Buy some gas, it's cheaper than ownership, or buy his lunch when he takes you flying. Better yet, buy him a bottle of his favorite hooch. If he is rich he is used to people trying to take advantage of him or mooch, or sell him something. Be the exception to the crowd. Remember, exceptional people get exceptional results!

[vanguard]

I know of several people who have had training paid for by an owner. If you are looking for an ad in TRADE A PLANE that says "WANTED ,PILOT WHO IS WILLING TO TRAIN IN MY WWII FIGHTER , PAID FOR BY ME"
I dont think you will find it.

BDK is right. He is going after his dream the best way he can. Start with what you can afford and work your way up as you can.

[Obergrafeter]

FG1D pilot learned in the mighty J-3. Hey Doug do you think maybe us L-Bird drivers just become superior pilots by shear determination. As someone said a Cub is just enough airplane to kill you a little bit. Don't think I ever learned any thing in the L Birds that wasn't useful down the line. Hear the Corsair will be ready for Oskosh.
Wayne

[groundpounder]

interesting thread guys!, that being said, to put it all in perspective just how qualified or competent may be a better word,were the original pilots of these planes?? it seems that a guys gotta have a lot of specialized training and flight time just to get a sniff at one of these beauties yet back in the day they were just kids doing more than any of us will ever do. of course they had specialized training but little or no experience im sure. throw in 9 crewmembers and a full load of bombs and a bunch of people doing all they can to knock you back down to earth, it doesnt look pretty for those poor young fellows. anyway the point is that just how qualified were these young fellows relative to todays standards?? sim.

[O.P.]

Re: the question of where the next generation of warbird pilots will come from...

At some point, the warbird owners are going to have to cultivate new pilots. That will mean taking someone under your wing and mentoring them.

I believe that there will be a round of new pilots coming in. But as was noted.... where will they come from?

I guess that would be me. Dan Dugan has been a warbird and flying "Mentor" to me for the last 3 years. It all started at an airshow and "Can I get a ride sometime?". Since then through Dan, I've met and become friends with the T28 group/s in my part of the world. Trojan for lunch bunch, the COG, and many others. All of them have been flying and T28 mentors at all times. Through them I've met most of the other warbird owners and operators in my area, and all of them have been very generous with their time, hangars, and airplanes with me.

I've been going at it a little different than a lot of guys. A love of warbirds got me to flying. My whole new found flying thing, career, obsession is completely centered around warbirds. I love flying, but I never would have done it if it weren't for the promise of that T28 ride.

I know I am extremely fortunate in that the very first guy I asked about warbirds, did something about it. I also know that I am extremely fortunate that my Mentor is a NASA test pilot who has set me straight on flying, T28's, warbirds, ex wives, you name it. Dan has given me so much backseat time that I am a few hours away from a complete flight, from the backseat. When it comes time to move into the front seat, I will be very ready.

If I am ever privileged to be asked, I should be able to bring a whole bunch of round engine warbird experience. In fact, the way I am going and plan to go, that should be the bulk of my flying hours. One of these days I hope to be doing airshows with Randy, BDK, FG1, Jase, and others.

I've been fortunate, so I'm not very hip to the real path to warbird flight. I like mine. The only advice I can give to cats wanting to do that is,

1. Be a pilot. I know that sounds stupid, but you aint gonna be flying anything, let alone a Corsair, if you are not a pilot. Get started now.

2. Be there. Shaking the same hand 5-10 different times and saying hello over three years, counts for a lot. I never planned it that way, but thats the way it is. I'm a nub at the warbird, and flying stuff. I know that you guys would shoot me if you knew the cats I've talked to, who've talked to me, and I had no idea who they were. Dan, or one of the other guys usually say "So what were you talking to that guy for an hour about?". In one case it was high altitude flying. Monopolized the conversation for over an hour at a table full of folks. Just me and that dude. I (no sh1t) looked his name up on google when I got home. I just had the same experience at Marysville this weekend. Anyway, Some folks remember me now. They know what I'm about, and they know I'm serious about it. And in every case, they are all for it and are there for me.

3. Be ready. I'm always ready to clean, carry, push, pull, anytime and anywhere. That kinda good karma adds up over time.

Oh well, another long post. Be a pilot, Be there, Be ready. There are cats out there who will bring someone under their wing, you should be the above, and very very motivated, or you might be just another airshow spectator.