T-28 crash in Hungary, 10/9/2023

[Hooligan2]

T-28 HA-RDM (c/n 174-185, 51-3647) crashed during a display in Hungary yesterday, sadly two killed in the aircraft and four injured in a car hit by wreckage. Dished out of a slow roll.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/345403

[RyanShort1]

That's a bad one. Ugh!

[Warbird Kid]

That third video is brutal. My thoughts to the family and friends of those lost and inquired. darn... that is a total shame. Appeared to be too slow of a roll at too low of an altitude and wasn't able to recover in time. Simply tragic.

[Firebird]

That third video is brutal.

Quite

As said, another one lost in an all too familiar way, with not enough height attained to safely execute the manoeuvre.

Surprised to hear there were two POB as well.

[OD/NG]

Very sad. It appears the pilot was trying to do an 8 or 16 point aileron roll from the video. It looks like the moment he went upside down, he tried to dish it out and recover into the bottom half of a barrel roll. Obviously, he didn't have enough altitude to recover, but a couple of other things come to mind besides simply energy awareness. He could have had a flight control malfunction/binding or a medical incapacitation event. We won't know the answers until the accident investigation is complete. I don't know anything about Hungary's accident investigation committee/branch, but I do hope they release the findings to the public so we can all benefit from the knowledge gained. I do know that some countries don't release accident investigation reports to the public - hopefully Hungary is not one of them.

This event sounds surprisingly similar to this T-28 crash in the Czech republic:

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/264294

Additionally, this looks like an almost identical setup that a Mustang attempted a few years ago in the U.S. that unfortunately resulted in the loss of lives.

My thoughts are with the victims.

[marine air]

Amateur or beginner aerobatic pilot trying to be a professional. I'm no expert or anything, Dissecting the footage he seems to have a pretty good head of steam although he could've been faster with a higher power setting. He pitches up and then almost levels off a minute as though he's hesitating to get up the nerve. Then when he starts the roll, he only pitches up about 5 degrees when a lot more is needed. the loss of altitude is made early in the maneuver , not in the latter part. So. on a Stearman you better pitch up about thirty degrees. I don't remember on the T-28 but someone else knows. I'd guess 20 degrees pitch up. It's deceiving because the T-28 has nice performance like the P-51 and flies like a jet with light control surfaces but still needs a lot of pitch up in the roll.
As he rolls past inverted the nose is pitching to or below the horizon and a moment later he knows he screwed up and hesitates. The hesitation is at a point where the wing is producing almost no lift. the hesitation with the nose below the horizon pulls the airplane to the right with more nose below the horizon and G forces. It would take an expert to recover from that situation. The hesitation really compounded the problem. The way I was taught was to continue the maneuver and get the wings level , don't stop mid maneuver.
I've made the same mistake at altitude (T-34A) and seen an Air Force vet make the same mistake in the T-28. He only pitched 5 degrees and we lost 800 feet. That's why it's a great idea to leave the low level aerobatics to the true experts.

[marine air]

edit

[p51]

A friend of mine texted me the video with the words, "I bet you're glad you don't fly on these things anymore?"
And my response was:
Yeah. I am
I often tell people that more than a couple of planes I flew on back in the 90s no longer exist anymore, from crashes. When I see stuff like this or hear of another warbird augering in, I'm thankful someone still has the guts to fly them, but I doubt I'd take such a ride now. Maybe it's my close calls in the military soon after that timeframe, but I wouldn't have been in the back seat of that T-28...

That third video is brutal.

Yeah, that deep bass of the thump and the people running away (who seemed to be feet away from the impact) was unlike any other crash video I'd ever seen.
You can clearly see the control changes a split second before the impact. The pilot appears to have seen it coming and reacted just too late to save him and the back-seater.

[Dave Hadfield]

Well that one goes straight into my Annual Recurrent Training file for 2024's session.

As was said, it may have been a medical issue. My perpetual PITA point, for which I take a lot of flack: Accident Investigation By Social Media Is Unprofessional. But yes, first impressions in this case are very negative.

But that last video, the snuff one, with the kids burned and screaming, because their parents didn't pay to take them to actual airshow but instead parked them beyond the fence right under the show line, is terribly painful to watch.

Dave

[p51]

But that last video, the snuff one, with the kids burned and screaming, because their parents didn't pay to take them to actual airshow but instead parked them beyond the fence right under the show line, is terribly painful to watch.

As I understand, people parking just outside a show is very common as some of those airshow tickets are quite spendy in the EU.
But in the US, you see it as well. I've even seen them for free military shows, for folks who don't wanna fight the traffic leaving the event.

[C VEICH]

Very odd that prior to impact the aircraft stops rolling and then actually begins to reverse back the other way. It appeared to me that there was plenty of speed and altitude to finish the maneuver had it continued as it was started. I think it quite possible that either there was a physical issue with the pilot or something else happened in the cockpit that diverted the pilot's attention.

[RyanShort1]

Very odd that prior to impact the aircraft stops rolling and then actually begins to reverse back the other way. It appeared to me that there was plenty of speed and altitude to finish the maneuver had it continued as it was started. I think it quite possible that either there was a physical issue with the pilot or something else happened in the cockpit that diverted the pilot's attention.

Or he saw the people and car in front of him and was trying to change course slightly?

[Matt Gunsch]

Very odd that prior to impact the aircraft stops rolling and then actually begins to reverse back the other way. It appeared to me that there was plenty of speed and altitude to finish the maneuver had it continued as it was started. I think it quite possible that either there was a physical issue with the pilot or something else happened in the cockpit that diverted the pilot's attention.

that was the plane stalling, at that point the pilot was no longer in control and was just along for the ride.

[Xray]

.

But that last video, the snuff one, with the kids burned and screaming, because their parents didn't pay to take them to actual airshow but instead parked them beyond the fence right under the show line, is terribly painful to watch.

Dave

Daft statement.
Seems to me the most fatalities, by far, are from people within bases.

[p51]

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/small-plane-crash-air-show-hungary-kills-2-103071148