Engine & Aircraft ID

[mike furline]

This photo was in a July 1942 edition of Air Progress. A generic article about military aircraft engines.

What was the purpose or aircraft that this long nose case R-2800 was developed for?

Looks like a Lockheed 14 in the rear, but with an odd prop-cowling combo.

Last edited by mike furline on Sat Jan 20, 2024 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[JohnB]

It's the 6th B-23 produced (39-32), bailed to P&W for engine tests for the B-26 and XB-28 progams.

[mike furline]

It's the 6th B-23 produced (39-32), bailed to P&W for engine tests for the B-26 and XB-28 progams.

[JohnB]

I considered a Lockheed, specifically the XC-35, but the nose in the photo doesn't look right.

The nacelle also look more Douglas than Lockheed.
Especially the cowl flaps.
And the pitot is in the right place.

But I agree, the window (complete with curtain!) looks very Lockheed.
But remember, various B-23s had windows.

Still, the fact that P&W had a B-23 as a test bed is compelling.




Too bad we can't see more of the left gear.

[mike furline]

Looks like the engine may be a P&W R-1535 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26 ... asp_Junior which isn't listed as used in Model 14's or any Lockheed that I could find.

Perhaps it was just engine testing at Pratt & Whitney along with the Long Nose R-2800.

[mike furline]

The R-2800 may have been for the XP-56 Black Bullet.
.
https://www.arcair.com/awa01/001-100/aw ... et/00.shtm

[Chris Brame]

First thing I thought of was Boeing 247, from the shape of the nose.

[mike furline]

First thing I thought of was Boeing 247, from the shape of the nose.

I think you are the Winner! What I was seeing as Lockheed is most likely UNITED AIRCRAFT CORPORATION.

[Randy Wilson]

The R-2800-29 used in the XP-56 does not look like the engine in the photo. If you have a copy of R-2800 Pratt & Whitney's Dependable Masterpiece by Graham White there are pictures of that engine from the rear (p. 264) and front quarter (p. 539) which shows a large fan and extended prop shaft with a gear box. If you look in the index under R-2800 (general) for the -29, there are more references.

I will try and scan these images and post them in a short while. It doesn't answer what the engine in the photo in this thread was or why it has the long nose extension.

Randy

Edit: added scanned images

Attachments

[JohnB]

A R-2800 with contra rotating props was considered for the NA XB-28..

Yes, corporate (UA) relations may have dictated a Boeing aircraft as a P&W test bed.
Another possibility is the engine may not be related to the aircraft behind it.

The window curtain could indicate it was a P&W corporate transport and not a test bed.

Last edited by JohnB on Mon Jan 22, 2024 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Randy Wilson]

What I can learn about the engines used on the XB-28. The same book I referenced above says that the XB-28 used 2800-11 engines and the XB-28A used 2800-27. On page 531 there is a data block for the XB-28 that says the right engine was a 2800-11 and the left a 2800-15. Page 255 has the specifications table for the -11 and under notes it says "Left engine was R-2800-15. Torque indicator experimental. XB-28A crashed". Page 256 has the specs for the -15 with the note "Right engine was R-2800-11. XB-28A crashed. Similar to -11 except counterclockwise rotation". It shows only 4 of the -11 manufactured and 3 of the -15.

On page 262, the data table for the -27 says a total of 878 were built. The Applications block says "Douglas JD-1, Douglas B-23, Douglas A-26, B, C, Douglas XA-26A, B, C, Douglas XFA-26C, Fleetwings XA-39, Grumman XF6F-1, Grumman XF6F-4, Grumman F7F-1N, North American XB-28A". I didn't find a photo of any of these dash numbers. Just FYI.

Randy

[mike furline]

What I can learn about the engines used on the XB-28. The same book I referenced above says that the XB-28 used 2800-11 engines and the XB-28A used 2800-27. On page 531 there is a data block for the XB-28 that says the right engine was a 2800-11 and the left a 2800-15. Page 255 has the specifications table for the -11 and under notes it says "Left engine was R-2800-15. Torque indicator experimental. XB-28A crashed". Page 256 has the specs for the -15 with the note "Right engine was R-2800-11. XB-28A crashed. Similar to -11 except counterclockwise rotation". It shows only 4 of the -11 manufactured and 3 of the -15.

On page 262, the data table for the -27 says a total of 878 were built. The Applications block says "Douglas JD-1, Douglas B-23, Douglas A-26, B, C, Douglas XA-26A, B, C, Douglas XFA-26C, Fleetwings XA-39, Grumman XF6F-1, Grumman XF6F-4, Grumman F7F-1N, North American XB-28A". I didn't find a photo of any of these dash numbers. Just FYI.

Randy

Since the -8 was mass produced for Corsairs (and others?) and the photo had to be taken prior than July 42, is there any dash #'s that are low/limited production prior to that?
Using your book maybe we can limit the potential choices by working backwards, -5 (B-26's), -8 (Corsairs)?

[Steve Nelson]

I concur the aircraft is a Boeing 247. I just happened to have taken a photo of the 247 in the Canada Aviation and Space Museum from almost the exact same angle.

SN

[Randy Wilson]

Mike - good thought. Let me see what I can come up with along those lines. Probably tomorrow before I can post any results.

Randy

[Randy Wilson]

Mike and others. Scaling off the photo, assuming the man is from 5'4" to 5'8" gives a length of the engine shown to be 105 to 112 inches. In the book, the tables of the dash numbers give a Diameter and Length for each. Few of these early engines exceed 100-inch length and phots of these do not show the length in the nose case but rather in additional blowers, etc. in the rear. I have no good news from this source. Wishing you better luck.

Randy