Ferrying P-51’s to Hawaii

[86583]

Holy cow, you guys…

I didn’t know the guy, he was a buddy of a friend of mine. He was also, near as I can tell, largely a bullsh-t artist. What he told my friend was that he was involved in ferrying (as in FLY, as in FERRY COMMAND, as in FLEW THE AIRPLANE FROM A TO B BECAUSE IT WAS AT A BUT NEEDED AT B) from the mainland (I’m assuming California) to Hawaii. I figure it’s nonsense because last year I FERRIED a C130 from California to Hilo, Hawaii and it was about 2750 miles as I recall, and my info says a P-51 with FERRY tanks has an absolute range of about 2080 miles until it becomes a glider (re Bill Gunston, “Allied Fighters of World War II”).

Feel free to say what you think. He’s dead and I think most of his stories were just that - stories.

so I guess it's column A then

[Xray]

Sure I can google this, but what was the range of the escort missions from Iwo to Japan and back ?

I recall hearing about a disastrous mission, I think they called it "Black Sunday" or somesuch, 20 or so P-51's were lost on an escort missions when they ran into a terrible storm.
Had to have taken balls of steel to fly those missions in any circumstances, also heard that quite a few were lost when they failed to rejoin the B-29 mothership after the strike, their odds of finding Iwo by dead reckoning alone were pretty slim.

[Dan Jones]

Sure I can google this, but what was the range of the escort missions from Iwo to Japan and back ?

I recall hearing about a disastrous mission, I think they called it "Black Sunday" or somesuch, 20 or so P-51's were lost on an escort missions when they ran into a terrible storm.
Had to have taken balls of steel to fly those missions in any circumstances, also heard that quite a few were lost when they failed to rejoin the B-29 mothership after the strike, their odds of finding Iwo by dead reckoning alone were pretty slim.

Spying a sub on lifeguard duty must have been a very welcome sight.

[menards]

Sure I can google this, but what was the range of the escort missions from Iwo to Japan and back ?

I recall hearing about a disastrous mission, I think they called it "Black Sunday" or somesuch, 20 or so P-51's were lost on an escort missions when they ran into a terrible storm.
Had to have taken balls of steel to fly those missions in any circumstances, also heard that quite a few were lost when they failed to rejoin the B-29 mothership after the strike, their odds of finding Iwo by dead reckoning alone were pretty slim.

There is a lot of info out there about these fighter groups. These were refferred to as VLR (Very Long Range) escort missions. Distance flown was around 1600-1700 miles round trip, and varied depending how much time was spent seeking targets over the mainland. One mission could last nearly 10 hours in the air. P-51s were modified to carry larger 165 gal drop tanks, in addition to their armament. Mustangs were also field equipped with navigational aids, although this the tech was so new and not standard P-51 equipment most pilots were unfamiliar with how to use it correctly. SHips were stationed along the route to aid in navigation and provide support if ditching was required.


They started training in Hawaii in the fall of '44 and were deployed to Iwo in March of '45. I was able to find photos of the fighter groups being delivered to Iwo...by carrier.

That said, there would have HAD to have been some form of long range over-water test flights/training flights to prove feasability....

[menards]

Sure I can google this, but what was the range of the escort missions from Iwo to Japan and back ?

I recall hearing about a disastrous mission, I think they called it "Black Sunday" or somesuch, 20 or so P-51's were lost on an escort missions when they ran into a terrible storm.
Had to have taken balls of steel to fly those missions in any circumstances, also heard that quite a few were lost when they failed to rejoin the B-29 mothership after the strike, their odds of finding Iwo by dead reckoning alone were pretty slim.

There is a lot of info out there about these fighter groups. These were refferred to as VLR (Very Long Range) escort missions. Distance flown was around 1600-1700 miles round trip, and varied depending how much time was spent seeking targets over the mainland. One mission could last nearly 10 hours in the air. P-51s were modified to carry larger 165 gal drop tanks, in addition to their armament. Mustangs were also field equipped with navigational aids, although this the tech was so new and not standard P-51 equipment most pilots were unfamiliar with how to use it correctly. SHips were stationed along the route to aid in navigation and provide support if ditching was required.


They started training in Hawaii in the fall of '44 and were deployed to Iwo in March of '45. I was able to find photos of the fighter groups being delivered to Iwo...by carrier.

That said, there would have HAD to have been some form of long range over-water test flights/training flights to prove feasability....

[menards]

Sure I can google this, but what was the range of the escort missions from Iwo to Japan and back ?

I recall hearing about a disastrous mission, I think they called it "Black Sunday" or somesuch, 20 or so P-51's were lost on an escort missions when they ran into a terrible storm.
Had to have taken balls of steel to fly those missions in any circumstances, also heard that quite a few were lost when they failed to rejoin the B-29 mothership after the strike, their odds of finding Iwo by dead reckoning alone were pretty slim.

There is a lot of info out there about these fighter groups. These were refferred to as VLR (Very Long Range) escort missions. Distance flown was around 1600-1700 miles round trip, and varied depending how much time was spent seeking targets over the mainland. One mission could last nearly 10 hours in the air. P-51s were modified to carry larger 165 gal drop tanks, in addition to their armament. Mustangs were also field equipped with navigational aids, although this the tech was so new and not standard P-51 equipment most pilots were unfamiliar with how to use it correctly. SHips were stationed along the route to aid in navigation and provide support if ditching was required.


They started training in Hawaii in the fall of '44 and were deployed to Iwo in March of '45. I was able to find photos of the fighter groups being delivered to Iwo...by carrier.

That said, there would have HAD to have been some form of long range over-water test flights/training flights to prove feasability....

[Stoney]

having flown a C-54 from honolulu to oakland at 190mph, it takes just over 12 hours and we had 16 hours of gas.

[Mark Allen M]

Holy cow, you guys…

I didn’t know the guy, he was a buddy of a friend of mine. He was also, near as I can tell, largely a bullsh-t artist. What he told my friend was that he was involved in ferrying (as in FLY, as in FERRY COMMAND, as in FLEW THE AIRPLANE FROM A TO B BECAUSE IT WAS AT A BUT NEEDED AT B) from the mainland (I’m assuming California) to Hawaii. I figure it’s nonsense because last year I FERRIED a C130 from California to Hilo, Hawaii and it was about 2750 miles as I recall, and my info says a P-51 with FERRY tanks has an absolute range of about 2080 miles until it becomes a glider (re Bill Gunston, “Allied Fighters of World War II”).

Feel free to say what you think. He’s dead and I think most of his stories were just that - stories.

No one's blaming you for anything Dan. It's just that with all my research, and many others, I haven't been able to find any evidence this ever happened. But since I'm no expert on ferry flights, I can only go on what I can, or cannot dig up. Nothing comes close, but I won't dismiss it entirely, as often I find bits of WWII aviation history that's new and amazing (if true of course).

Interesting story though.

[Dan Jones]

Holy cow, you guys…

I didn’t know the guy, he was a buddy of a friend of mine. He was also, near as I can tell, largely a bullsh-t artist. What he told my friend was that he was involved in ferrying (as in FLY, as in FERRY COMMAND, as in FLEW THE AIRPLANE FROM A TO B BECAUSE IT WAS AT A BUT NEEDED AT B) from the mainland (I’m assuming California) to Hawaii. I figure it’s nonsense because last year I FERRIED a C130 from California to Hilo, Hawaii and it was about 2750 miles as I recall, and my info says a P-51 with FERRY tanks has an absolute range of about 2080 miles until it becomes a glider (re Bill Gunston, “Allied Fighters of World War II”).

Feel free to say what you think. He’s dead and I think most of his stories were just that - stories.

No one's blaming you for anything Dan. It's just that with all my research, and many others, I haven't been able to find any evidence this ever happened. But since I'm no expert on ferry flights, I can only go on what I can, or cannot dig up. Nothing comes close, but I won't dismiss it entirely, as often I find bits of WWII aviation history that's new and amazing (if true of course).

Interesting story though.

For my money it’s bunk. If nobody here has never heard of it, that’s pretty good evidence that it’s a “ferry-tale”. I won’t even bring up his wildest story.

[Warbirdnutta]

Double post?

Last edited by Warbirdnutta on Sun Dec 15, 2024 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Warbirdnutta]

Double post?

Last edited by Warbirdnutta on Sun Dec 15, 2024 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Warbirdnutta]

Off topic but on the subject of Mustangs flying along way over water.

Ex ZK-SAS now VH-LUI flew Norfolk Island to Coolangatta on June 18th 2022.
That is around 1410klms or 876 miles over the Tasman Sea. Pic's below of her
on Norfolk Island on June 17th 2022, note no external tanks and I do not know
if she has extra tanks internal installed?




She now resides in Wangaratta, Australia with Doug Hamilton of Presicion Airmotive.


Here displayed in September 2024 at Temora, Australia.