Warbird Information Exchange

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry ... rtxt=420GP
GRUMMAN TBM-3
TRI-STATE WARBIRD MUSEUM
BATAVIA, OH

I have never been to Oshkosh but from what I understand they normaly have ground crew help the big airplanes come and go where were they?

I have never been to Oshkosh but from what I understand they normaly have ground crew help the big airplanes come and go where were they?

they are only in the Warbird parking area, once they are on the taxiway, they are on their own. I know the pilot of the TBM, he is a good safe pilot, lots of tailwheel time.

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Matt Gunsch, A&P, IA, Warbird maint and restorations
Jack, You have Debauched my sloth !!!!!!
We tried voting with the Ballot box, When do we start voting from the Ammo box, and am I allowed only one vote ?
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That prop strike story reminds me of when I flew with Mark Henley of the AeroShell T-6 team. Mark's a super guy and great pilot and we went through some serious acro the two times I flew his AeroShell T-6G from the front seat with him in the back. As a pilot (CFI), you can just tell when a person is "the obvious master of their airplane". Even from the back seat, he handled the Six (when I let him!) with a grace I've rarely seen in a pilot I've flown with.

Anyway, one time I had just gotten in the front and Mark wanted to pull the prop through before I cranked her up. Literally just before he started, I noticed that the Mag switch was on BOTH. I immediately switched it to OFF, of course, and he proceeded to pull it through a few blades. When he got up on the wing, I mentioned it. He said, "No way!". It was, I assured him.

Every once in a while I wonder what would have happened if the prop "kicked" or whatever would have happened with the prop in theory and in reality very much "hot" as it was ... not to sound selfish, but of course if it turned out to be a major tragedy as the "inexperienced in the T-6" pilot I would have gotten the blame I'm sure.

Every time I think of that story I thank my Guardian Angel! God bless the deceased pax on that RV-6.

Wade

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Website: http://www.wademeyersart.com
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I had a close call in the TBM at an airshow. I was returning to my spot after flying the show. The area was tight and had no room to "S-turn". A marshaller was a couple of spots away and motioned for me to continue on. A museum volunteer was standing with chocks ready for me to pull in. As I made the turn, something flashed in my right side view and I hit the brakes. The tail came up and the struts collapsed. A woman in a car had somehow gotten on the ramp and had pulled in front of me. When I stopped my right tire was against the car and the prop was over the far fender. She hadn't even seen me. The prop hadn't hit anything. It must have just missed the hood and when the struts collapsed lowered enough to be below the hood.
End result: The TBM is almost impossible to see ahead of. You have to be very aware of what's ahead. And even when people are around watching, they may not realise what's happening or freeze and not be able to warn you.
On another note, I would love to find the site where the guy was complaining about warbirds at OSH. I took the OV 1D there at a cost ofabout $4000 for fuel alone. I got a check this week, for Sun-N-Fun. They pay a small amout for fuel if you fly in the show. The check was for the P40 and was $118. Fuel alone for the that trip was over $3000. ICAS, the convention for airshows, reported that after the Jet teams, warbirds were the most popular thing at airshows. Let's do a poll: How many of you would rather fly: a- P51, b- RV 8. In a nation wide poll, the result would be all but that idiot and maybe whoever he was writing to. But I bet one or both would be lying.

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Blue Skies,
Doug

www.cavanaughflightmuseum.com

FG1D, Doug...She didnt see you? Yikes.

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Tragedy is tragedy, whether it is the Bloody 100th (in time of war) or those poor guys in the RV-8 and the TBM. I generally don't like questions that start with, "Why don't they," but here it is appropriate. Why do they only have marshalling/ground handlers/wing walkers at the Warbird area, or is that something that comes from the amount of traffic during the show? I have heard from friends (and none of them real experienced pilots) that it is a total cluster and barely controlled. Is that true?

I haven't flown in such a busy airport since going to FL to finish up my private and that was the ONLY time I have ever flown in a busy airport. Part of my decision process in going to KOSH this year included just that- I knew I was not going to have any time to go practice at a busy airport before I went there. Is this kind of lack of experience a contributing factor?

Is there any way for incidents to be reduced? I'd like to hear from pilots who have actually flown there. I know that accidents happen, but this kind of accident is fairly preventable.

On a plane in which the pilot cannot see over the nose on the ground, is there any possibility, especially with a plane certificated as experimental, that a small video camera system could be devised to mount under the cowl, chin, or belly and supply a feed to a small display in the cockpit? Heck, they have had these pointed out the back of motorhomes for years. My helmet camera system is super small, the camera itself is only 3" x 1".

I'm sure it could be done....I wonder if someone will ever tackle this? A plane worth many K's or M's, I'm sure a thousand bucks and some ingenuity is doable.

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A prayer said for all those involved in this particular tragedy.

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Life's a Pitts

This year's ground handling was not good at OSH. I came home in my T-6 on Sat and was complaining that work needed to be done. Of course, without knowing specific details of the accident, I have the feeling that this would be the consensus after the TBM accident on Sun. The essential problem is that it is a volunteer force. While their time dedication is greatly appreciated and there are some outstanding line guys out there, we also have a situation where an unknowledgable line person is more harmful than none at all. With a warbird taildragger and tight spaces, we won't be seeing in front of us. I guess the simple solution would be to take the guys from the line crew assigned to us at any show and put them in the cockpit. Let them see what we're up against. Also talk through a departure route from the parking spot and re-entry. I was very sorry to hear about the accident, but I hope it will be a catalyst for change.

Jason

How about putting a guy on the wing like they did back in the day. I've seen old WWII color films of ground crew riding prone on the wing sighting for the pilot.

regards,

t~

I worked on the Oshkosh line as a Civil Air Patrol cadet back in the day. After a weeks worth of training, you're put out for hours at a time. Lot's of kids ended up with heatstroke. Definitely not something you want to deal with while marshelling aircraft. As I recall, I think us CAP kids were relegated to the grass taxiways and were not allowed to marshall on the tarmac. But it was a summer to remember. I got to do "security" for the warbirds section. "Please do not poke the B-17s fabric elevator sir."

It was very dificult when I departed OSH on Friday, as the taxiway for 18 had traffic coming both from the South (homebuilts and classics) and North (the Warbird ramp). The orange vest guys got me off the warbird ramp OK, but once on the taxiway it was very difficult to S turn to see all the little planes, as the space was very tight. I did feel that there were enough marshallers there to handle the job, but everyone was stacked in tight.

It's always difficult to mix big taildragger warbirds with smaller GA aircraft.

I know nothing about this particular accident, but my heart goes out to all those involved.

I do not want to second guess the cause of this accident before seeing the facts, however overall at fly-ins or air shows people must remember that a propeller driven air plane is nothing more than a giant cuisanart looking for someone or something to chop up.
I have been marshalling at shows for over twenty-five years including being the boss at one of the larger regional events and if nothing else I have found out that most pllots and spectators do not understand what marshallers are trying to tell them. Also the ground people cannot be there to help someone all the way to the runway on a half mile taxi.
Yes the CAP kids might not be up on everything but any help is better thsn none. We all can't fly the planes. Hopefully this accident will make us more carefull on the ground.
Doug you also know that a TBM is dangerous just sitting there as the scar on my forhead can testify to from your plane at Fredricksburg.

Having seen a accident of the boat where a young airman walk into the idling prop of a E-2C, all I can say is that I hope they taken proper action to ensure this type of needless accident never happens again!

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Don't touch my junk!!

The system broke down. Lots of safety is always in every Airventure convention and they will find out how this tragedy happened. My condolences to all involved.
The "scuttlebutt" I heard was that the FAA put all traffic on the taxiway for RWY 18 because they were shorthanded Sunday . I'm not making any guesses because there are so many factors involved. Yes, the TBM has bad forward visibility, so do Stearmans. The worst forward visibility I have ever eperienced was in a Starduster II homebuilt. It's not that unusual at any airshow to see a guy in a warbird waiting in line with Piper's, Mooneys, Aztecs, etc. The truth will come out just like the Navy warbird accident a few years ago.