Thunder Over MI 2006

Scott Rose · **Posted:** Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:55 pm

AIRIC wrote:

Oh man, somebody edited my last word :roll:

Scott!

Eric

LOL, you've run afoul of the word filter

AIRIC · **Posted:** Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:54 pm

I’m finished anyway. Not sure what got into me :lol:

Eric

Roger Cain · **Posted:** Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:53 pm

TheNetwerk wrote:

They said on the website that the B2 would be a Saturday thing only, but failed to mention that the Lancaster was sunday only. I had family come in from out of the state as well as my eldery grandfather (a vet) to see that plane fly. They were unable to go to Sundays show because of travel, but nowhere did the Y.A.M. indicate the Lancaster was Sunday only. I understand there were cost issues, which is understandable, but I know A LOT of people were disappointed that they were not notified. Remember, not everyone is a WIXer.

I attend some 35-40 fly-ins, air shows, and type gatherings a year. Those shows that do have a website or advertising flyer, usually have confirmed with the military months in advance for a fly-by, and usually advertise as such, the day the fly-by will take place. I've seen this not happen more than I've seen it happen. Very few shows actually list any aircraft attending, other than the "paid" air show performers that will be in attendance. Some will go an extra step and mention that there will be "warbirds" or a "P-51" or "B-25" in attendance. If this B-2 had had a technical problem, it would have easily been replaced by another.

I don't recall seeing that the YAF listed the Lancaster as flying or not flying on any day in particular, only that it was part of the list of planes to be in attendance, and it was there all three days. The Lancaster is owned by a museum, and I was more than pleased, just to get to see it.

This was my fourth year to attend this show, and I came from CA, it cost me plenty, but that was my choice, and once again, the variety of aircraft made it worth it. No, my trip isn't paid for by any magazines, it comes out of my pocket. This is my one out-of-state trip each year. Yes, there were planes on the list that weren't there, and like every other warbird show I've ever attended, I expected it; they're old aircraft, I don't need a reason why. I'll be back next year.

Elroy13 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:54 pm

OK...So Ive been reading all of this negativity about TOM and the planners and schedulers and so on....by a few individuals..and I just cant keep holding it in!

I have a hand in putting on another airshow in this great country of ours and I can tell you "TheNetwerk".. its heck of a lot of work and time to put on one of these airshows! And until YOU have a part in putting one together, I dont think you have room to throw you two cents in!!
I believe that if you are a big supporter and a true fan you would take your advice and suggetions straight to the people of YAM! Im sure there are people from YAM on here but for the most part your voice will be heard by going to them DIRECTLY...not beating around the bush on chat forums or web sites!!!
And its always by chance that most of the airshows come out the way that they were planned! There are just to many factors. But I cant tell you that this is the second year for me being apart of the TOM airshow, and to me it keeps getting better!! The people of the YAM have been wonderful and helpful to us when we are there....KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!! HOPE TO SEE YOU NEXT YEAR! :spit

TheNetwerk · **Joined:** Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:50 pm **Posts:** 27

Tulio wrote:

"To be blunt, I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to get/share information, hence.. information exchange not "www.letsmakewarbirdbuddies.org"

So unless you can be civil, this is where I stop feeding a troll."

Not that Mike Henniger needs anyone to defend him; not that we will always get along with everyone; it is just human nature that we will disagree with others.

BUT . . . . you can catch more flies with honey, than with vinegar.

Thus, calling Mike a troll, is disrespectful because you could not find a nicer guy even if you looked all your life.

If your attitude is to come here and get information, and not to make friends, then you will come up very short. People tend to gravitate away from those who just seek to "use" others, in this case, for information alone.

I have made good frienships here -and also have made some foes- but in toto, the friendships have been worthy and productive.

I do see your point of view when you indicate the things that you saw wrong with the airshow.

Most people who work in these things are volunteers, and as such, coordination between different groups is difficult at best.

Having worked as a volunteer for so many years at the Wings Over Houston airshows and open houses in West Houston and a couple of times in San Marcos, TX, I know what you are talking about and I have lived it myself.

I have pointed myself a couple of instances regarding the Indianapolis airshow...

Please try to be less confrontational on this issue, I am sure that your comments will be better received and you will achieve more in helping to make that show, a better show.

Saludos,

Tulio

Friends will defend friends. Regardless. It's human nature. I'm new and no one really knows me here, so I have no one to defend me/my words.

And in calling Mike a troll, i did not mean a supernatural creature of Scandinavian folklore, variously portrayed as a friendly or mischievous dwarf or as a giant, that lives in caves, in the hills, or under bridges. But rather someone who is not being constructive, nor civil, but rather being antagonistic and badgering, which he was. I know many people will not agree with this, but you are his friends so of course you wont.

I never said I was opposed to friendships here, but it wasnt my specific purpose for coming to the warbirdinformationexchange, it was to try and exchange info. I wasnt trying to "use" anyone, as you say. Although, I do know there are a couple awesome people on here who have been helpful and open with answers, which rocks! I just wish there was ..more people like that.

I never said anything was wrong with the airshow. Never. I said there were things that could be improved on, just as there are things that I wouldnt want changed for the end of the world. I understand that there are huge #'s of volunteers at these things, I've volunteered at a couple airshows myself, so I'm not as clueless as some seem to like to believe. But I dont believe it's impossible to get info to supporters, volunteers, patrons, etc..

In my original post, I wasnt confrontational. I merely sat down and wrote out my experience. My mistake was in sharing it. When I did so, i didnt believe people would bother/badger/harass me like they have, which prompted me to not be little Mr. Sunshine.

This is like a bad hockey game, where I'd be screaming at the telly. The ref doesnt see the instigation -- but he does see the reaction it provokes.

TheNetwerk · **Joined:** Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:50 pm **Posts:** 27

Scott WRG Editor wrote:

Everybody chill. And Nettwork, your making quite a first impression here. I get the distinct impression that you really have no idea what goes into an airshow. It is a long and involved process that is made harder by having little money to work with and having to deal with a wide variety of owners and aircraft that attend out of the love of warbirds more than any compensation they recieve. The problem is that sometimes maintenance, conflicting schedules, and pilot health affect these things. Often those aircraft that drop out are doing so at the last minute. The organizers do thier best.

As for the announcers, while probably less needed at this type of show than at a regular military airshow they are still needed. I understand you want to listen to the aircraft, I do as well, but a lot of people listen to the announcers to find out what is going on. Its part of the airshow, deal with it.

The layout could have been better from what I understand and hopefully it will be next year. Instead of griping about it, make suggestions. A good portion of the YAM staff frequent this forum and constructive criticism is sure to be heard.

Your entitled to your opinion of course but make sure it does not degenerate into personal attacks.

It's funny, as I've said, many people told me that fencecheckers and WIXers treat n00bs and people dont agree with like m0rons. I have to type it like that, otherwise it will get edited. As I said in my review write up, I understand what goes into putting on a warbird show and I seriously apprecate all that people have to do. And I think there were some things that really fell through the cracks (and a lot of people had the same advice for the T.O.M. coordinators, so I know im not alone). I think you need to go back and re-read my review because I point out specifically that I understand there are issues with pilots/owners/planes/companies etc that just cannot be avoided and can come up at any moment, you seemed to have skipped over that part (and the mulitple times I've mentioned it).

It wouldnt be too hard to have an announcer say something for the last minute cancellations. Just to give people a little info, lord knows they were struggling for material at times, cracking ridiculous Gene Hackman jokes throughout the entirety of a show.

I never said announcers werent needed at all. I basically said that silcence was needed once in a while, however. If they have info about the demo/plane, I'm all about hearing it, but cracks about Gene Hackman/incorrect info/talking just to hear themselves talk is something *I* could do without, which is why I mentioned it in MY review.

If people loved the banter of the announcers, they can put it in their review of the show and people can badger them about that.

TheNetwerk · **Joined:** Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:50 pm **Posts:** 27

AIRIC wrote:

I decided to try Fence Check and this is the guy who made me not want to go back. He is all-full of spit and vinegar. The part that kills me is he keeps bringing up the word individual of questionable judgement.

Eric

Oh ya, i'm "that guy" although it is YOU who keeps responding to my posts and harassing me. Right, I'm the guy. The guy who know squat about, but choose to whine about and judge -- not to mention tell me what runs through my veins. Riiiiight. :lol:

TheNetwerk · **Joined:** Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:50 pm **Posts:** 27

Roger Cain wrote:

TheNetwerk wrote:

They said on the website that the B2 would be a Saturday thing only, but failed to mention that the Lancaster was sunday only. I had family come in from out of the state as well as my eldery grandfather (a vet) to see that plane fly. They were unable to go to Sundays show because of travel, but nowhere did the Y.A.M. indicate the Lancaster was Sunday only. I understand there were cost issues, which is understandable, but I know A LOT of people were disappointed that they were not notified. Remember, not everyone is a WIXer.

I attend some 35-40 fly-ins, air shows, and type gatherings a year. Those shows that do have a website or advertising flyer, usually have confirmed with the military months in advance for a fly-by, and usually advertise as such, the day the fly-by will take place. I've seen this not happen more than I've seen it happen. Very few shows actually list any aircraft attending, other than the "paid" air show performers that will be in attendance. Some will go an extra step and mention that there will be "warbirds" or a "P-51" or "B-25" in attendance. If this B-2 had had a technical problem, it would have easily been replaced by another.

I don't recall seeing that the YAF listed the Lancaster as flying or not flying on any day in particular, only that it was part of the list of planes to be in attendance, and it was there all three days. The Lancaster is owned by a museum, and I was more than pleased, just to get to see it.

This was my fourth year to attend this show, and I came from CA, it cost me plenty, but that was my choice, and once again, the variety of aircraft made it worth it. No, my trip isn't paid for by any magazines, it comes out of my pocket. This is my one out-of-state trip each year. Yes, there were planes on the list that weren't there, and like every other warbird show I've ever attended, I expected it; they're old aircraft, I don't need a reason why. I'll be back next year.

I dont believe the B2 would have been as easily replaced as you may believe. It could have just been en route somewhere and was swinging by, I doubt it traveled over multiple states just to do 2 passes as an airshow. Now, maybe I'm wrong, I dont know.

They didnt mention any planes that wouldnt/would be flying. Except that the B2 would be making a pass on SAT only. If they knew that the Lancaster was only going to fly sunday, they should have put that on the site, just like the B2.

Oh, I was more than pleased to just SEE it. Seeing it fly was just a bonus for me, but I really wish the T.O.M. people could/would have provided more info regarding when it was going to fly so that my familywho came from out of state (and many other people) who could only attend 1 day or the other, knew which day to come, based on if the Lancaster was flying.

The variety of aircraft is staggering and amazing, but at the same time I really believe the T.O.M. staffers could have been more transparent with info when it came to the general public.. I dont know where I stand on going right now. Part of me cannot imagine NOT going/supporting the museum, but part of me is so bothered by the lack of information that I dont want to feel hoodwinked again..

TheNetwerk · **Joined:** Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:50 pm **Posts:** 27

Elroy13 wrote:

OK...So Ive been reading all of this negativity about TOM and the planners and schedulers and so on....by a few individuals..and I just cant keep holding it in!

I have a hand in putting on another airshow in this great country of ours and I can tell you "TheNetwerk".. its heck of a lot of work and time to put on one of these airshows! And until YOU have a part in putting one together, I dont think you have room to throw you two cents in!!
I believe that if you are a big supporter and a true fan you would take your advice and suggetions straight to the people of YAM! Im sure there are people from YAM on here but for the most part your voice will be heard by going to them DIRECTLY...not beating around the bush on chat forums or web sites!!!
And its always by chance that most of the airshows come out the way that they were planned! There are just to many factors. But I cant tell you that this is the second year for me being apart of the TOM airshow, and to me it keeps getting better!! The people of the YAM have been wonderful and helpful to us when we are there....KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!! HOPE TO SEE YOU NEXT YEAR! :spit

I never said boo about the planners or the schedulers. So obviously that has nothing to do with me, because as I've stated I dont blame anyone for planes not showing up -- stuff happens that cannot be avoided and we all understand that. It's part of life with warbirds.

As i said in my review and as I've said countless to many other people, I understand what goes into a warbird show, I've volunteered my time at a couple, so I do surely have somewhat of an understanding of the copius amounts of work/time put into getting an airshow together, so dont assume I know nothing.

As I said in my review, it's intended for those who are interested -- if you werent interested my two cents, you shouldnt have read. And I believe that anyone planning an airshow wants to hear the good and bad of the shows they planned so that they know what worked and what didnt, so that they can make their show better..

In posting here, I was hoping to get info from other attendees and who knows who else. The fact that people who coordinated things was a bonus. And I do plan on going to the directly, although by the response and disrespect I've been getting here, I think I need to sugarcoat my review heavily because people wont quit badgering me over it.

I never said the airshow wasnt growing. I just thought there were a few areas that needed some attention, so I addressed them. Again, if this was something you werent interested, you only needed to move on.

I hope they keep up the good work as well, but I also help they care enough about the airshow to listen to their supporters so they can make it a bigger and still better event every year!

Roger Cain · **Posted:** Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:05 am

TheNetwerk wrote:

I dont believe the B2 would have been as easily replaced as you may believe. It could have just been en route somewhere and was swinging by, I doubt it traveled over multiple states just to do 2 passes as an airshow. Now, maybe I'm wrong, I dont know.

Quite often a plane making simple passes such as the B-2 Spirit did on Saturday, are on a training mission that has been aligned with an air show or fly-in. This was probably the case for this one, but it may have flown to another show also. Could be anywhere in the U.S.

I've been at a few shows where the narrator/military PAO was aware that the fly-by military aircraft was also making a pass at another show elsewhere. In the early display days to the public of the B-2, we were given a display by a B-2 at the Salinas (Calif. Intl. Air Show) Air Show, that made several passes and then flew a display afterwards at Oshkosh, WI. Recently at the Merced Fly-In (June 2006) we were treated to a single fly-by of a pair of CA ANG F-16's on their way to the Beale AFB show, going on at the same time. Last fall the new F-22 Raptor made several fly-bys at the Travis AFB show, before going down to another military show in Southern CA. Usually these planes do have a backup aircraft in case of mechanical problems.

All shows have a backup display aircraft (military) in case a mechanical problem arises, which is why there were two F-16's from the East Coast Demo Team at Thunder, but only one flew. This includes the US Navy Blue Angels and the USAF Thunderbirds.

mjanovec · **Posted:** Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:28 pm

I know TheNetwork has been suspended, but I feel it's important to clarify the difference between flying and static at airshows. In general, the Lancaster was there as a static display. The only reason it "flew" on Sunday was because it was departing at that time. Often, a departing aircraft will make a pass or two over the crowd before leaving. It's a few dollars more to make those passes, relatively speaking, so they do it as a courtesy for those in attendance. It's a heck of a lot more money to simply put the Lanc up in the skies on Saturday for the sake of flying it around...so that's likely why it didn't fly. Plus, heavy bombers like that earn their keep (or part of it) by letting people tour through them in exchange for a donation. The reason Yankee Lady flew so much was that she was giving rides to paying customers.

Also, one only needed to look in the official show program to see the schedule of planes that were putting on flying displays. The official show program was essentially spot-on with their schedule...except that the final number of Spitfires and Skyraiders was somewhat less than anticipated. I believe the show program also listed the B-2 as doing a flyby on Saturday and the Lanc as flying by on Sunday before departure. There was no mystery there.

If one sticks around to the end of the day on Sunday, you'll get to see just about everything "fly" as it departs. When I left the ramp at the end of Sunday, the only planes remaining were the two F-16s, the Caribou, and perhaps a couple of T-6s. Everything else flew out...the Junkers, the C-54, etc. The light blue TBM even made a couple of fly-bys before it departed, even though only a few people remained in the area [if they are reading this, thanks for the fly-bys!].

From noon to 5pm, it was an action packed show. There was almost always something in the air. It doesn't get much better than that.

kalamazookid · **Posted:** Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:33 pm

Quote:

I decided to try Fence Check and this is the guy who made me not want to go back. He is all-full of spit and vinegar. The part that kills me is he keeps bringing up the word individual of questionable judgement.

You're not the only one whose had some bad experiences there, believe me...

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Thunder Over MI 2006

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