Warbird Information Exchange

I'd like to know what other folks think makes a good airshow? Perhaps the good things and even the bad points in general. It may be different if one is a sponsor, organizer, vendor, pilot, public photograper, etc.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

I (along with every one else) like to see less Flipity-Flop Pitts, Exta 300, and Sukoy (spelling) acts, they are all the same and are anoying.

I like to see warbird acro routines (Lee Lauderback, Ed Shipley, Snort). At Oshkosh a while back Lee and Shipley did a 2-Ship formation acro routine and it was awesome! Last year a guy did a spectacular Spitfire routine and that was one-of-a-kind to me.

Trey

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"There are two types of people here; airshow whores and airshow prostitutes. The whores, like you and I, do airshow stuff for free, whereas the prostitutes are paid" - Reg Urschler

I think a good show can be any size. It doesn't have to be big, or small. Some of the most entertaining shows I've been to have actually been the smaller more intimate kinds where you can talk to the pilots/owners and move around the aircraft without too much hassle.

From a visitors perspective: I think what makes for a really good show is a variety of different and interesting aircraft performers, a responsive and courteous organizing crew, and the ability to see the aircraft up close (on the ground or flying). I say this as a long-time airshow attendee (more than 3 decades now - yikes!).

From a performers perspective: I think safety is the biggest key to enjoying a show, that and decent accomodation, good food/refreshment services and helpful timely staff to respond to problems. A really good air boss makes all the difference in the world too! I say this having attended a good number of airshows as part of a performance team.

From a photographers perspective: It's always good to have a time when you can photograph the aircraft before the main crowd arrives. It's also great to have specific vantage points where photographers can go... especially at some shows which have the sun in front of the crowd line. At these shows it's great when you can get permission to go to the other side of the show so you don't just get silhouettes of the aircraft when they fly. I say this as a professional photographer, and do understand that any airshow would have to limit that sort of access for safety reasons.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Richard

Funny you should ask. I was just thinking of the different experiences we've (Mrs. Mudge and I) had at the 4 shows we've been to this year.
First was PoF in Chino:
Nice small show. Liked the fact that the aircraft were doing manuvers in front of the crowd. You get shots of the a/c in various attitudes.

Next was MAAM in Reading:
Nice small show. Aircraft pretty much flew in circles though. You only get closeups of one side of the aircraft and not much in the way of different views.

Next was Duxford, Flying Legends:]
What can I say? If you haven't seen Flying Legends, you haven't REALLY seen a fantastic airshow. Many of the same types flying together gives the opportunity for an almost unlimited number of views.

Last one was Thunder Over Michigan:
Nice small show. Really liked the idea of the "Photo Tour/Photo Pit" they had. The "tour" allowed for really up close shots of the planes. My only criticism would be the fact that the a/c flew in big circles so, for the most part, you were either getting "left-to-right" or "right-to-left" shots.

As you can probably glean from this, I like a lot of the same types flying together (as long as they're warbirds) and to have them doing formation flying/manuvers if front of the crowd. I understand that some airports may have restrictions as to who can do what with their a/c so this is not a criticism of the shows that have such restrictions placed on them.

We're not much into jets, WWI aircraft, or aerobatics so I'll leave those shows for others to critique.

Mudge the warbird freak

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Land of the free because of the brave

Bill,

I'll describe myself as an enthusiast that really likes to photograph (strictly amateur) warbirds. My only experience with helping at an airshow was selling soda and cleaning up at Lonestar when I lived in the Houston area.

As far as features, the more warbirds the better. Some modern military demos are also good and they make my wife happy. I especially like airshows that open the gate early in the morning so I can get good static shots before the hordes arrive. Good examples are Geneseo, Thunder Over Michigan, Midland and Lonestar. Adequate seating along the showline and/or taxiways is a big, big plus. The photo pit at TOM was well worth the cost to me. Concessions should be spread out along the crowd line so drinks and snacks are easily accessible, but they shouldn't block the view of the show. As most shows are really fund raisers of one sort or another, I don't mind reasonable concession prices as long as they don't reach highway robbery levels.

I bet my views are not unique on this board which is slanted towards warbirds. However, we should all remember that shows attempting to raise funds will have to be more general and include current military demos and a few civilian aerobatic acts to attract a large audience.

According to ICAS polls the airshow crowds want to see 1 Demo teams (Blues, T-birds etc. 2 warbirds, 3 modern military demos (F-15,A-10,etc.4flip flops. The cost of number one is restrictive to most small shows, leaving the next three. Warbirds are expensive but the only way to make money (defray costs mostly) is to get in front of people. So a mix of 2, 3, and a little of number 4 seems to be the ticket for most shows especially with this crowd. I like to see Stearmans, Wacos, Cubs etc. doing acro much more than the modern Extra, Pitts etc. and a little goes a long way.
I have been on both sides of the fence for over 30 years and learn something new every year. I've never really met an airplane I didn't like, but some people like only their specialty (homebuilt etc.) and wouldn't walk across the street to see a P-61 flying wing on a B-36.
Producing a show gets harder each year and the public might be getting jaded especially in our part of the world.
Having done Air Bossing for a few years its' nice to see we are appreciated by at least a few.

These are what really makes a show "good" to me:

1. Seeing something very rare/unique. Something where it's the only flyer around (SB2C, B-29, etc.) or something that isn't seen at very many shows (F-100, F-4, Hurricane, etc.) One of the most unique things I've seen is a helicopter drop a junked-up car from about 500ft. at Goshen. Of course, I'd rather see a one-of-a-kind warbird...
2. Warbird or vintage aerobatics. This is why I really miss the Air Zoo's warbirda and shows because they would always have aerobatics with the aircraft. John Ellis' Tigercat aerobatics are some of my best warbird memories, as are Dale Snodgrass' routines and Howard Pardue. Even Stearman, Waco, AG Cat, etc. aerobatics are neat to watch.
3. Heritage Flights and Formation flying. Heritage Flights are a major draw, at least for me. The Flight of the Cats was always a big draw, and when I went to Muskegon I taled to some folks who primarily went to see the P-38 fly with the F-16. I also enjoy seeing good formation flying like the P-47s at Thunder this year.
4. Modern militray demos are always a big draw with the general public, and if there is a demo I haven't seen before, I will strongly consider going to see it. The Super Hornet and Strike Eagle demos are definitely my favorites, and I will definitely see the Raptor demo when it comes to show within a reasonable driving distance.
5. The top draw for most "normal" people is Thunderbirds, Blue Angels, Snowbirds, etc. I tend to try to stay away from these shows because of the huge crowds, unless there is something else I really want to see.
6. I also like good static displays where you can go and look underneath the aircraft instead of having them roped off. I also like what Thunder does with the Photo Tour, even though I haven't been yet, but that is a big draw for photographers.

Overall warirds are the main draw for me, but if there is a good military show nearby I will always consider going. I'm not really into seeing a little red pitts do aerobatics for the 500th time, so I won't really go into judging those. Not really original viewpoints, just thought I'd chime in with my 2 cents

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Matt

I've worked a lot of shows, and though my perspective is from the operations side, I think the best type of show has a good blend
of fast and slow, loud and quiet, vintage and new.

I'll put my foot out and produce a line-up here that I think would
make a good, balanced show.

Military Jet Demo Team: (F-15, F-16, F-18)
It gives you loud and fast, breathtaking performance. Also allows
for a Heritage/Legacy Flight.

Formation Team: Snowbirds
Fantastic 9 ship formations that are amazing to watch. It doesn't
need to be the Blues or T-Birds to be exciting.

Civilian Demo Team: Red Baron Squadron
Action is loud, smokey, and big and kept close to the field, also
gives you multiple acts, opening circle the parachutes act,
two-ship act and four-ship main act. They have flexibility and showmanship.

Sailplane Act: Manfred Radius or Bob Carlton etc.
Quiet grace and style in the sky.

High Energy Acro: Patty Wagstaff, Jim Leroy, Sean Tucker etc.
Fast paced, exciting edge of your seat flying.

Wingwalking Act: Gene Soucy/Thresa Stokes are a great combination,
as Gene can also fly the Showcat as a sole acro and fly his Extra as a
fast paced, acro act.

Warbird aerobatics: Corsair -Snort or Dan McCue,
Mustang- Vlado Lenoch, Ed Shpley or Jim Beasley
Allows for suberb vintage flying and Legacy/Heritage flights.

Parachute team: Golden Knights
Everyone likes to see where they all actually land!

Vintage Biplane Acro: John Mohr
He's mesmerizing with his handling of a stock Stearman!

Helicopter Act: OTTO
Great act and one that young and old can enjoy,
added benefit of helicopter rides for the public and
sailplane tow ship!

Any military fly-bys that you an get: F-117, B-2, C-5, KC-135 etc.
Utilizes active missions and saves space on the ramp. Usually, if
you've got assets other than the demo teams, they're on static
display and never fly during the actual show. WE get to see them
arrive and depart, but the public doesn't get to see the statics fly.

Warbird flights: Any warbird you can get!
Obviously, the slant on this site leans heavily to the warbirds, but
a few bombers/fighters can fit into a show just as well as 30! Tora,
Tora, Tora, fits into this catagory and I believe that if a show
continues year after year, you've got to mix it up a bit each year.
One year warbird light, the next, warbird heavy.

Maybe even a jet truck:
It can be a little hokey, but the crowd sure likes it!

With my apologies to many other peformers out there, any of the
pilots and acts mentioned above can be certainly replaced with
others that are just as good, if not better, but it is my rough idea
of a perfect show.

Believe it or not, almost all of the above mention were part of one
show I worked a few years ago, and we did realize it at the time
that the show was almost a perfectly balanced, entertainment
machine.

I know there are a lot of other types of acts that I've left out, I
just can't think of them all right now!
Blue skies,
Jerry

I like to enjoy the vintage warbirds in their element-both the sights and sounds. I find it especially annoying that when you mix modern jets with piston-engined planes, the howling jets idling on the ramp drown out the sounds and experience of the warbirds. (Along with announcers who can't shut up and blaring music that doesn't stop.) Often, even the piston demos are so closely-timed that you don't get to experience each aircraft individually but instead you have a chorus of engines idling and you can't experience a proper flyby or takeoff.

In the least, it would be nice if the jets and piston aircraft had seperate time windows for aerial displays.

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"They done it, they done it, damned if they ain't flew." December 17, 1903

The best shows I ever attended were the warbird shows at Breckenridge, TX.

Saturdays were like a fly-in. Low key, no so organized, you could sit close to the runway and shoot great film. The pilots were relaxed and talkative. the ramp was open to the public.

Sundays were show days. The schedule was fairly tight, the flying close and spirited. The modern stuff would beat up the field and leave (no room on the ground for them)

Those were the days.

The CAF puts on a good show...but I haven't been to see them in Midland..yet

The worst shows I have attended were either the militray base shows or the big corporate tent paid seating types. The flying is usually way too far away, the crowd is huge...especially at the free base shows...the corp. tents are at show center, too many Pitts' and Extras, hour long lines to walk through a C-5...you get it

I always enjoy seeing the Teams fly...but I usually watch them from outside the field ..on Fridays...hehe

The 80's Chino shows were the ultimate!

Nonstop action dawn to dusk- from warbugs to (vintage) jets, Reno air racers, etc. No intermisions, not a spare moment to breathe. A well regulated free-for-all!

Super Corsair, Tsunami, Dreadnought, Dago Red, T-33, A-4, F-86, T-38, P-26, P-12, P-51s galore, HA-1112, Zero, Spit XIV, P-40s, gaggles of Stearmans, PT-19s, L-19s, C-45, A-26, B-25s, B-17, B-24, B-29...(not an active duty military aircraft in sight!). What am I forgetting?

The volunteers at the show had way more fun than the paying guests! Rides before, during, and after the show until all the fuel was gone.

The airshow wasn't primarily a funding source then (which I understand the importance of), it was about everyone getting together to fly.

I must be getting old (or daydreaming again).

Get enough toilets.

Too few toilets are the fastest route to seriously piss*d off kids, mum and thus dad and a no return next year/early leave/bad PR.

The rest's a bit more than details, but that's No.1 failure area.

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Raven

Not photograph into the sun.
No aircraft parked between you and the display line to photograph take-off and landing.
A flight line walk facility, where you go past the fence and walk along the taxiway for closer photos (Duxford often has that).
Have enough time to walk around the field and see all the static displayed aircraft before the flying display begins.

When you stand on a field in the sun all day my first priority is water. The Dutch Air Force handed out free water bottles at the Open Days because it was a very hot day. Good thing they had pallets of water bottles available.

I like to see the warbirds fly, P-51D, B-25, etc... and the display teams like the Red Arrows and the Dutch F-16 display.
I also like the simulated attack with a dozen F-16's and Apache helicopters.
The Yakkes Foundation Yak-52 display flown by Gennady Elfimov...

As an air crew member I like a good barbeque and beer, a proper hotel not too far from the field and quick departure when everything is over.

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http://www.warbird-hangar.com links and gallery &
http://www.yakkes.com Yakkes Foundation, Yak-52

Temps under 100 and water for free

I like the layout and setting of Geneseo about the best of all the shows I have attendend to date.

I agree with Mudge, I would love to see Mr. Russells and Mr. Potters AC in formation with CWH Lancaster one of these days and am not a real big fan of circle track displays ( but i will take what i can get )

The Russell Group show this year I thought was great, to see the Spit and 109 in close formation high speed passes was incrediable. Then break into a tail chase with it ending with Mr. Walker doing a acro display in the Spit. ( acro in a Spit not seen by me in Ontario since the retirerment of Jerry Billing 1995 )

The re-enactment at thunder was a big highlite too, nice diving passes.

Heritage flights I enjoy alot ( Harvard with the CF18 at Ottawa was very cool )

Pretty much lots of Warbirds with a little modern AC and a good amount of show line for the spectators. Photo tour/pit I think is a great idea for the more serious shutter bugs .

Sitting in the back of TE308 on a flight would be pricless too

Cheers DAve C