Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Tue Jul 01, 2025 5:02 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:51 pm
Posts: 102
Location: winnipeg mb canada
HI,
Does anyone know what the "buzz" numbers on the side of certain Harvards used in the BCATP (British Commonwealth Air Training Plan) stood for and how they were assigned?
For example the #46 on the HArvard below and #28 on the Harvard below that. thanks - ken
Image
.
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:41 am 
Offline
S/N Geek
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:31 pm
Posts: 3790
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
The buzz numbers were applied after trainees started pulling stunts. I remember reading about one case where a student flew a Harvard solo shortly after dusk directly towards a train with only one landing light on. The train of course came to a stop thinking there was another train on the track. Of course too dark to read a buzz number anyway, but stunts like that prompted their application. At least that is my understanding. It wasn't like I was there.

I would guess individual units just applied them in sequence as they received airframes.

Mike

_________________
Mike R. Henniger
Aviation Enthusiast & Photographer
http://www.AerialVisuals.ca
http://www.facebook.com/AerialVisuals

Do you want to find locations of displayed, stored or active aircraft? Then start with the The Locator.
Do you want to find or contribute to the documented history of an aircraft? If so then start with the Airframes Database.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:14 am 
Offline
S/N Geek
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:31 pm
Posts: 3790
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
I linked this thread into an email list I belong to. I received one reply so far on the subject...

Quote:
At least some of the ones assigned to Borden had single-letter codes, examples in the book "Harvard!" including "N", "C", and "R". Some photos show other Harvards wearing two-letter codes, "AA" and "DJ" being two examples. Others wore their RCAF serial in very large sizes on the fuselage sides.

I suspect it varied from base to base as well as over time and that it was as much for easy recognition on the ground and in the air among pilots and instructors as it was to aid civilians reporting buzz jobs. When you had a ramp or a sky full of yellow aircraft, making them easy to identify so you could strap into or form up on the right one would be a useful thing.

Jeff Rankin-Lowe


Mike

_________________
Mike R. Henniger
Aviation Enthusiast & Photographer
http://www.AerialVisuals.ca
http://www.facebook.com/AerialVisuals

Do you want to find locations of displayed, stored or active aircraft? Then start with the The Locator.
Do you want to find or contribute to the documented history of an aircraft? If so then start with the Airframes Database.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: bcatp buzz numbers
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:14 pm
Posts: 669
Location: Aerodrome of Democracy
The RCAF applied buzz numbers to all training a/c to discourage students from both low flying and stunting.
The two numbers are the last two numbers on the RCAF serial number assigned to that aircraft.
Example : my Fleet 16b is RCAF # 4494 , therefore the buzz number is 94

Keep'em Flying
Fleet 16b

_________________
...it was a plane adrift beneath the moon moving serenely thru beams like an angel of the night .....fair as a song ........aloof from mortal dreams


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: BCATP BUZZ NUMBERS
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:14 pm
Posts: 669
Location: Aerodrome of Democracy
Almost forgot.

I don't know why the black and white Harvard pic has that number on the side.
I ask mt Dad who Flew at #9 EFTS . He states that at all EFTS stations the rule of thumb was to paint the last two #'s of the RCAF s/n large on the sides of the fuselage.
As for the Harvard pic it seems to an exception. He can't recall for sure but suggests two reasons
1) SFTS stations may have had another numbering rule.
2) As the stations were all civilian manned, some had different variations of the same rule. Hence why the buzz #'s were not always the same shape or size from school to school.

_________________
...it was a plane adrift beneath the moon moving serenely thru beams like an angel of the night .....fair as a song ........aloof from mortal dreams


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:47 pm 
Offline
S/N Geek
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:31 pm
Posts: 3790
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
I received another reply...

Quote:
Mike:

I had a look at the website and the answers posted to date.

I would suggest that it would be unusual....but possible....for the two-digit "buzz number" to be the last two digits of the aircraft serial!!

For example, the Hurricanes used at No. 1(F) OTU at Saguenay(Bagotville) and its subsidiary ATTD(Advanced Tactical Training Detachment) at Greenwood used numbers with no connection to the s/n, which has been a frustration, because many pilots recorded the 2-digit number in their logbooks and the unit diary also did likewise at times, especially later in the war. Maybe it "confused the enemy", but it does likewise for researchers!!

Another variation, rarely seen except perhaps on Cornells, was the displaying of the aircraft serial with the first two digits small and the last two digits quite large, as seen in the attached photo taken of the Tiger Moth that Bob Laidlaw flew in California and subsequently flew across Canada and donated to the Toronto Aerospace Museum. The aircraft had served at the EFTS at Souris, Manitoba. The serial on the starboard side of the tail was painted as 7438, which Bob was advised as being correct by a previous long-time owner of the airframe.

Another variation, used by the Kittyhawks attached for Fighter Affiliation work with No. 5 OTU, Boundary Bay, used large two-letter codes on the nose, eg: "PN" was the nose code for RCAF 867, now N1226N with the Commemorative Air Force. See profile attached. I have postwar photos of this aircraft at Boeing Field, that Peter Bowers gave me, but they are not scanned.

The Liberators and Mitchells at 5 OTU carried similar two-letter "buzz" codes.

By the way, Harvard "46" is a warbird, probably one of your own photos shot at Tillsonburg, while "28" appears to be an authentic WW II photo. There is no way of telling if "46" was ever painted that way in RCAF service, although it does appear from the s/n presented in the paint scheme to be a wartime vintage model. With warbird paint schemes, who can tell??

Jerry Vernon
Squadron Leader - no B. S, and proud of it!!


Mike

_________________
Mike R. Henniger
Aviation Enthusiast & Photographer
http://www.AerialVisuals.ca
http://www.facebook.com/AerialVisuals

Do you want to find locations of displayed, stored or active aircraft? Then start with the The Locator.
Do you want to find or contribute to the documented history of an aircraft? If so then start with the Airframes Database.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 39 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group