2 TBD Devastators found off of Marshall Islands

[RMAllnutt]

No, no TBD's survive in any museums... that's why these airframes are so important. Hope someone gets them soon, and gives them the TLC they deserve.

Cheers,
Richard

[tom d. friedman]

no museum survivors?? the navy better not muck up the works on this 1!!! they sure raked champlin over the coals when he tried to finance the 1st tbd discovery some years back!! & their it still sits full of urchins & barnacles!! they should cop the same attitude as with the buffalo recovered recently!!

[Bill Greenwood]

Re. TBD's, can anybody confirm these planes are really there? Has Tighar ever recovered any aircraft? Re. Am. Earhart, when Tighar was on tv with their version, I was at Lakeland rooming with Jeff Ethel, who also wrote a book on her, and Jeff refuted most of the Tighar claims. One example, a size 9 ladies shoe found claimed might be hers, Jeff told me her shoes known to be in the Kansas museum were size 5 and they look so in her photos. A metal box claimed to be unique to her plane was common to PBYs all over those islands. Jeff's book has some fascinating facts about Japanese lies about their part of the search. It was a joy and a priviledge to have known him,and he left us much too young.

[Bill Greenwood]

Re. TBD's, can anybody confirm these planes are really there? Has Tighar ever recovered any aircraft? Re. Am. Earhart, when Tighar was on tv with their version, I was at Lakeland rooming with Jeff Ethel, who also wrote a book on her, and Jeff refuted most of the Tighar claims. One example, a size 9 ladies shoe found claimed might be hers, Jeff told me her shoes known to be in the Kansas museum were size 5 and they look so in her photos. A metal box claimed to be unique to her plane was common to PBYs all over those islands. Jeff's book has some fascinating facts about Japanese lies about their part of the search. It was a joy and a priviledge to have known him,and he left us much too young.

[Bill Greenwood]

Re. TBD's, can anybody confirm these planes are really there? Has Tighar ever recovered any aircraft? Re. Am. Earhart, when Tighar was on tv with their version, I was at Lakeland rooming with Jeff Ethel, who also wrote a book on her, and Jeff refuted most of the Tighar claims. One example, a size 9 ladies shoe found claimed might be hers, Jeff told me her shoes known to be in the Kansas museum were size 5 and they look so in her photos. A metal box claimed to be unique to her plane was common to PBYs all over those islands. Jeff's book has some fascinating facts about Japanese lies about their part of the search. It was a joy and a priviledge to have known him,and he left us much too young.

[airnutz]

Re. TBD's, can anybody confirm these planes are really there? Has Tighar ever recovered any aircraft? Re. Am. Earhart, when Tighar was on tv with their version, I was at Lakeland rooming with Jeff Ethel, who also wrote a book on her, and Jeff refuted most of the Tighar claims. One example, a size 9 ladies shoe found claimed might be hers, Jeff told me her shoes known to be in the Kansas museum were size 5 and they look so in her photos. A metal box claimed to be unique to her plane was common to PBYs all over those islands. Jeff's book has some fascinating facts about Japanese lies about their part of the search. It was a joy and a priviledge to have known him,and he left us much too young.

The TBD's are there, Bill. TIGHAR have never recovered any aircraft. TIGHAR
are highly speculative in their research..although they dump vast sums of
dollars on researching rumours. They have supplied a few pieces of info
which are useful..but for the most part, they're very iffy. TIGHAR and the
Navy make very strange bedfellows...

[TimAPNY]

These shots really makes me drool to see them so close yet so far away.

http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Devastat ... erican.htm

http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Devastat ... rican2.htm

Tim

[tom d. friedman]

looks as if their worth a try........ if their not worth restoring.... stick em in a big aquarium so they don't oxidize into aluminum dust upon contact with the air!!!! put some fishies in too!! i'd like to just put my nose up against the fish tank glass!!!

[Chris Brame]

... on the first linked page, the small picture of a TBD ditching in Pensacola Bay in 1938? Was it recovered back then, or is it still down there?

[RickH]

I'm just guessing here Chris but I'll bet that the ditching in Pensacola was
done to test both ditching procedures and the aircraft flotation system. If everything worked right it probably never went to the bottom. This was back in the days when Pensacola was the center of Naval Aviation.

[Aircraft Mech Paul]

Hi all,

it would be very signifigant if the USN would bring one up and at least TRY to preserve it. Especially considering the rarity of the airframe and it's historical signifigance in USN history. Consider the idea of what the USN did with respect to the Vultee Vindicator that was recovered from lake Michigan that they restored and preserved in the Pensacola Museum. From the photo's I have seen of that airframe....it was very well done with respect to the restoration efforts.

Perhaps the time has FINALLY come to resurect a TBD as well.

Just my two cents,

Paul

[bdk]

Maybe if the recover those two they'll be more inclined to let Champlin recover the 3rd.

[airnutz]

Maybe if the recover those two they'll be more inclined to let Champlin recover the 3rd.

I dunno Brandon...lotta bad blood there. The Navy's also funny about leaving,
what they deem as historically insignificant aircraft, where they lay regardless
of the types rarity. The Jaluit birds are however actual combat birds and
they seem to warm-up to that, as well as the fact the TBD's are not War
Graves.

As for my earlier comment on TIGHAR, I like to clarify part of my opinion.
For years I've read or watched on TV, their documentations and have eventually
felt as I've been "Geraldo Rivera'd with Al Capones secret basement".
There are some really talented people in TIGHAR, but they seem to miss
their mark consistently. Maybe they spread themselves too thin over the
really hard to find projects. For years they could have picked some attainable
finds in order to give credibility as an outfit of Historic Aircraft Recovery.
We read about such finds annually, but TIGHAR seems to stay snakebit.

Now, here they are again sucking-up resources, making noise and bluster
and requiring more funds that could go elsewhere AND picking a Navy
project for goshsakes!!! I guess that's my main beef with them. On the
other hand, they did finally provide public information as to the Loon Lake
B-23 parts going to NMUSAF and the museums intent to scavenge the
system inventory for one "benchmark Dragon" to be assembled there.
I haven't seen NMUSAF refute that info, so I tend to take it as true...but
considering the source..I never feel 100% easy with that thought.

Another of TIGHAR's good days was in the documentation of the de-crustation of
the BMW 801 engine recovered..IIRC.. from a river in France. Fascinating
stuff, but it was a document of someone elses work..and in the end they
didn't come away with an airplane.

Maybe the Navy and TIGHAR are not such strange bedfellows? Maybe
they're made for each other? The Navy spends more money in court and
ties up peoples time and money trying to seize aircraft...and looses more
often than not..than if they'd given their blessing and gone and done something
constructive. Either way a taxpayer is paying the bill.

On a final note, I re-read...AGAIN..the following page that TimApNy linked
for Bill. TIGHAR goes to great detail in describing the sitution of the TBD's,
the possibility of looters eventually damaging these precious artifacts of
history, how the NMNA/Navy are really the best folks to oversee these birds and
preserve them..blah.blah..blah. And I realize something...this sounds like
like forplay in the back of Chevy in high school!! Plump up the the pillows
NMNA/Navy...your TIGHAR is one the way!
www.tighar.org/Projects/Devastator/surveyamerican2.htm

The bastards may pull it off!

Edited for proper credit.

[Sgt13Echo]

Whatever happened to these 2 Devastators?

[airnutz]

Whatever happened to these 2 Devastators?

Still there...