Warbird Information Exchange

You're right about the serial number, it was a typo. I just contacted a USAF pilot buddy that works in flight safety and he's going to contact his buddy at Kirtland AFB where they handle cases like this and see if he can find out any new info.

Thanks '33driver, you may have saved me from embarassing myself with
my congresspersons!

Something is smelling fishy here about Great Lakes Dive Co...and I don't
mean Baldrick's apple-crumble!!

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

What do you suspect? Or what leads you to believe the GLDC is being disingenuous? Just curious.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Statement released from GLDC on their website:

http://www.greatlakesdive.com/front2.html


Interesting parts:

We had hoped that the 2006 dive season would shed more light on the mystery, but anyone who has followed the story knows, we ran into difficulties returning to the wrecksite.

We are releasing the images in part because there is a real possiblity
that we may not be able to gain futher access to the downed aircraft

also

the object has been one of the reasons that we have not revealed the location of the F-89 wrecksite to U.S. or Canadian Governments.


Is there anything we can do as indivdual citizens to move the focus onto these events and maybe get something proactive done. I know one person mentioned writing his congressman. Is that only outlet or are there more?

Well it will be interesting to see how this will play out.



Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

That is a vintage flying saucer down there. Does it count as a warbird? Seeing as it was downed by an F-89...

This is definetly a funky story...

_________________
Share your story: Rutgers Oral History Archive http://oralhistory.rutgers.edu/

Sad that this group is witholding the location of the F-89. The govt needs to step in so the famlies can have some closure if infact they still are inside the aircraft.

_________________
Long Live the N3N-3 "The Last US Military Bi-Plane" 1940-1959
Badmouthing Stearmans on WIX since 2005

It's more like where don't I find reason for suspicion Shay? The biggies...
WHERE are the photo images from the ROV of the "mystery object" they
mentioned in the news article on day 1 of this thread...you know..the "object"
which is 212-POINT-5 feet away from the F-89? They seem to be implying
that since they were there to photo the "object", then they didn't slide on
over abit and get some snaps of the F-89 in complying with Canadian
wishes. I know..I know..if they did, they couldn't show us anyway..maybe those will show up
AFTER the 2 governments stage a coverup.
One would think though, that if they had photos of the "object", they would
display them...or were they damaged by the "mysterious radiation"?

I'm finding it harder to believe, that after viewing their own data
the that a USAF aircraft witha closed canopy would not imply there
WILL BE government involvement. I've been a certified diver since 1979
and it bugs me that this major detail wouldn't occur to a Master Diver..very odd.


This whole thing is smelling of a ruse to drag-up funds for the other projects
they mention, or an outright hoax for the UFO'ers...I could be
VERY WRONG though.

IF I was going to contact my Congresspeeps, it would be by phone. If I
really wanted to turn up the heat..I'd contact a few Veteran organizations
and have them do as well. Given my current opinion about this subject,
I'm more interested in waiting and seeing what T33drivers AF contacts
come up with. I'm also waiting to see if and how GLDC fleshes-out their
apparently new website with empirical data from the past 5 years..photos,
equipment and people?

Oh..and to Mr. Boyle, even though the wing root of the F-89 is on the lee
side of the image..I think I agree it's too clean in appearance. Of course,
I'm not up to snuff on 50's-era raygun technology.
This could be remedied if GLDC would release the images of the 360 degree
survey they took of the site!

Edited..turning it down a notch.

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

The thought did cross my mind as to why the ROV pictures haven't been released. My original impression was that they hadn't enough time to ROV yet. But the news release clearly states they have ROV's the object. So who knows what's really going on? I'm just sitting on the sidelines waiting for the next move.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Sadder yet Jeff, if the families go through the winter waiting..only to find they had their hopes up for nothing.

Mildly Sad Occurence..These divers made an honest mistake and Ol' 'Nutz
has found yet another way to hoist hisself 'pon his own petard.

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

I communicated with Jim Bessette of Great Lakes Diving Company. And bascially I was told that they don't do salvage work and that they plan to inform the USAF......after they investigate the wrecksites .........OH and here's the biggie....wait for it.........they'll let the USAF know where the wrecksite is when after they film a documentary of it.

In my opinion this is pretty sad and extremely disturbing, from a veteran's point of view.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Yeah, I've been following the dialogue. Their logic escapes me sometimes
though,..I'm referring to the un-posted photos, of course. Interesting that he would
find some comfort with Woods Hole being involved. This lends them
some level of credibility. If they proceeded on that line and tried to retain
a position with such a project as the film documentors..or in some similar
role, then things could proceed onward. This would put Woods Hole as a
reputable middleman to survey the site. That would leave they 2 governments
to decide the details of investigating recovery of the Aircrew and dealing
with live ordinance(weapons and ejection seats). It would be interesting to
see if they could put this kind of package together, but wouldn't think anything
tangible would be possible till 2007, given the oncoming season changes.

Regardless of what's feasable on paper, I still wonder how a group of "Pro's"
placed themselves in this position?

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

Just got an update from my USAF flight safety pal. He informed me the flight safety guys at Kirtland AFB that handle recent USAF accidents don't handle any cases prior to 1974. Apparently there's another office at Maxwell AFB that handles pre '74 cases and he's pinged them and waiting to hear back. Once he gets a human being on the phone, he's definitely going to emphasize the possibility the bodies of the crew could still be with the aircraft so they take it seriously if they're not reviewing the Lake Superior F-89C case already. My buddy's dad flew F-86s back in the day so he has more than a passing interest in warbirds/history and more importantly would like to see the issue of the crew resolved for the families. Stay tuned...

I contacted JPAC about these turn of events and heard back from them yesterday:



Hopefully things are on the right road to being handled properly and give these families some answers aswell as some peace.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Way to go Shay! Maybe JPAC is the ticket. I'll follow up the USAF end as far as I can. Earlier this year I flew (from Honolulu) the remains of a crewman found (I believe from a B-24 crash sight) in New Guinea that had been recovered/identified. There was a uniformed Army Sergeant Major accompanying the casket from Honolulu all the way to final burial. It was really sobering and moving to witness the process...and encouraging that our gov't is interested in recovering servicemen lost years ago.

Good on ya' Shay and '33driver, Thanks for the sitrep..

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF