Warbird Information Exchange

Yesterday in Prescott, AZ an aircraft (N121CS a PA42 Cheyenne) on a photo mission crashed killing all on five persons on board. No other details known. It had been taking photos of a MIG21.

_________________
http://silverplate1945.smugmug.com/AVIATION

This will be a good time to open up an honest dialogue about safety in civilian formation flying and air-to-air photography.

saw the story on the news yesterday. did the 21 pilot eject or crash land?? the civvie plane passenger or passengers were fatalities. god bless them.

_________________
tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

The MiG landed uneventfully with no damage. It was reported as a 'midair', but in reality the MiG pilot reported that the Cheyenne dropped below him to look at the MiG's belly, and he never saw/heard from them again.

The MIG21 was N21UT.

_________________
http://silverplate1945.smugmug.com/AVIATION

That's awful news! Who was on board the Piper? To my mind, it does not sound like an appropriate aircraft from which to photograph a MiG-21 from. I wonder what happened to cause the aircraft to crash. Very, very sad.

I have been on quite a number of photo-flights myself, and it is a little chilling to hear about this incident. However, the flights I have been on have always been with formation qualified pilots. I think this is an essential ingredient to a safe photo-mission, and would not get involved in one where everyone flying was not so qualified. What does everyone else out there feel?

All the best, Richard

RMA, At this time we don't have much info public. I'd bet that the pilots were formation qualified. Having that govt approved piece of paper certainly doesn't guarantee an accident free flight. As for the Cheyenne, it is pretty fast, probably over 300mph and might be a good photo plane for the Mig. They could have used a prop fighter or something like an L-39, but they may have wanted to accomadate more than one person. In any case a shame.

_________________
Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Why ? it is all ready covered in FARs. The military is not the only ones that know how to fly formation. Look at the T-6s at Oshkosh, I don't see the military putting up 60+ planes in 1 tight formation. Every pilot in the Oshkosh T-6 formations I took part in were CIVILIAN, and alot of them had no military training.

What is appears is the Piper got caught in the jet wash and lost control.

I get tired of people after every incident call for more regulations, some dumb sugar flies into a building, and now no one can fly along the east river. He broke the rules and paid for it, but now we all are having to pay for it. Now this and they wants to open up dialouge ? How about this, it is all ready in the FARs, done deal.

Sorry to vent, but anymore I feel I have to defend my pilots cert as much as I do my right to keep my guns.



This was written by a friend of mine who recently bought and re-opened an airport that had been closed by the State of Michigan. He has given permission to distribute, provided credit is given to the source. You may find it useful.

Imagine yourself waking up on a cool Sunday morning. You walk to your back door and take in the sight of the sun peeking over the horizon. You think to yourself, “What a great day for a drive in my car to just put the worries of the upcoming work week on the back burner, take in all this great country has to offer and to just enjoy my life." You check the pressure in your tires, open up the hood and check all the fluids, let the engine run for a minute or two in your driveway and pull out onto the open road. You got up early and have the millions of miles of this country's highways at your every whim. Five miles from your house you are pulled over by two military Humvees and ordered out of your car and forced to lay on the ground at gunpoint. You are not read your Rights; you are treated like a criminal. Just for enjoying a morning drive in your car? Correct, you are detained for several hours for simply driving your car. Why? Because you didn’t call the Department of Motor Vehicles and see if it was legal for you to drive your car today. Is that the type of America you would like to live in?

If your hometown team is playing baseball, you cannot leave your house without supervision. If the President is within 30 miles of you, you cannot leave your house without supervision. You forgot to ask for permission and supervision to drive to the pharmacy to pick up some medicine for your child – you lose your license for 180 days. You may no longer visit the Grand Canyon, because someone drove his or her car off the North Rim. You may no longer drive with the windows down on your car, because the manufacturer does not specifically say you are allowed to. You have to tell the D.M.V. what time you are leaving your house, how long you plan to be gone, how many people are going to be with you, what time you will arrive at your destination, and call them when you arrive. Is this the America you want to have?

That is the type of America that pilots have to endure every day of week. You wish to impose more restrictions on pilots, on where they can go, what they can and can not do, and why? Because they simply choose to enjoy life in a manner different than you, and in a manner that you deem unsafe, and "scary"? I should hope that your wish to impose more restrictions on people who value freedom is really what you want, because what is to stop the restrictions from spreading to your boat, your car, your bicycle, or even walking, when airplanes are completely prohibited in this country? Is that the America you want? An America where you are no longer allowed to drive where you want to go? An America where you must provide federal identification to ride the bus? An America where you are not allowed to visit your mother in the hospital because the bus service does not go there? An America where you are watched constantly by the government, that questions every turn you make, and every destination you hope to visit? One where you must show your papers to the authorities at every turn? I should hope not. It is not the America I want. I value the freedoms we have in America. I would hope you do too.

With Reverend Niemoller in mind...

First they came for the Pilots, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Pilot.
Then they came for the Boaters, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Boater.
Then they came for the Cyclists, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Driver.
Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.
Be careful what you wish for.

Edward Frederick
Commercial Pilot
Aircraft Owner
Airport Manager

jon croghan wrote:
The thought has occurred to me that if the ground transportation
system was faced with all the regulations and restrictions and
requirements that general aviation has to deal with on any given day,
there would be a lot fewer cars on the road.

_________________
Matt Gunsch, A&P, IA, Warbird maint and restorations
Jack, You have Debauched my sloth !!!!!!
We tried voting with the Ballot box, When do we start voting from the Ammo box, and am I allowed only one vote ?
Check out the Ercoupe Discussion Group on facebook

I agree with you 110%, Matt!

so far only 2 names have leaked out, it is going to take awhile as the plane was burned completly out from the entry door forward. The plane appeared to have come down in a very flat attitude, no skid marks visiable on the video I have seen so far. The outline of the plane is very clear.

Billy Friedman, He flew the C-47 that was based in Prescott, and Andrew Bouquet.

Don Morris was also on board.

matt your statement / quote really puts perspective on the sh*t end of the stick civvie pilots get, nice job. fyi.... billy friedman is NO relation of mine.

_________________
tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Okay, Matt...unbunch your panties. At no time did I make the claim that civilians weren't qualified to fly formation, nor did I make the claim that the military had the market cornered on being able to fly formation. Nowhere did I suggest that more regulation was needed. YOU insinuated that based on one sentence I wrote -- a sentence where I suggested it was a ripe opportunity to have a dialogue.

I agree with you -- there's no need for more laws or regulation.

When I said "dialogue about safety", I meant pilots talking to other pilots about doing things smartly. About areas where we can do it more professionally.

I'm sorry if I represent "the man" that's "keeping the civilian pilot down"...if you think that, you need to remove that iceberg-sized chip off your shoulder that caused you to react so defensively to my post.

Matt,
I applaud your response! I agree 110% also. Our excellent military does not hold a perfect safety record. Plenty of lessons to be learned from their taxpayer funded mistakes.
David

This is from one of the other aviation boards I visit: