Warbird Information Exchange

Great to see the Beaufighter in one peace again. Being a pacific combat veteran it fort along side her American allies to meet the same goal.
It then seems strange to paint her in non original colours.There was more than one country that contributed to that horrible conflict. We are a world community lets all embrace that museums are places for learning about history not modern day theme parks. Jason Melbourne Aust
( Hendon has a Hudson & Mustang in there original colours.....)

Seen the Hudson at Hendon in RAAF colours, but which P-51 are you referring to?

Dave

The fully airworthy 44-74409 painted as 413317/VF-B/Donald
http://www.warbirdregistry.org/p51registry/p51-4474409.html

B-17 44-83868 is also in USAAF markings

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Martin
Wide open & turning left.

Thanks I knew about that, but that aircraft never wore those markings originally.........it is painted to represent a wartime machine.
I might have the wrong end of the stick here

Dave

I think the point being made is the Mustang in the RAF Museum could have been painted in RAF colours, but rather the RAFM chose to represent a US contribution (and RAAF with the Hudson) rather than being monocultural.

It might be worth a thought that in the USAF Museum, the United States' enemies are better represented than her Allies in the W.W.II gallery. Two Spitfires in US colo(u)rs a combat veteran Australian Beau in US colors, a DH Mosquito in US colors. I presume it's the museum's policy, which they are entitled to, but those that flew alongside the brave men of the USAF in other air forces might feel aggrieved at being so neatly written out in favour of a quick repaint and promotion of the Fascist enemy?

PS: It's just a thought, and an open question for debate if we're interested. Rants not needed.

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

I get it, so we are not talking individual 'original' schemes (NMUSAF Beaufighter painted as RAAF A19-43) just representative ones........in that case I will shut up now

Dave

p.s. Nice to see the NASM have the policy of leaving their aircraft in either original or country of origin schemes, mostly

The Beaufighter is 25% smaller than the B-25. The B-25 had a MTOW 50% greater than the Beaufighter. The Beaufighter is about the same size as a Mosquito.

Hi Boneyard,

I just grabbed for a US type that would be familiar to most US WIXers - a 25% error aint too bad, IMHO. To think of it as 'small' is to peg it as a lot less than 75% of a B-25.

After a bit of unpaid research let's say closer to a Douglas A-20 Boston / Havoc.

Cheers

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Sorry JDK, I just editted my posting as you posted yours! What about comparing it to a Mosquito? Most people know the Mosquito.

Thanks B,

Being a voracious 'odd aeroplane' collector, I'm often shocked at friend's and colleague's blind spots in terms of 'famous' types. But then, I can never remember how fast they go!

More to the point, it is the USAF Museum (by any other name) and thus can be seen that it should represent / champion the USAF before others. I just think it's a pity.

It's good to see another Beau on shou thou.

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

FWIW The US Air Force Museum policy up until very recently was to cover the US Air Force (and, by inference the Army Air Corps) and those it had fought. This approach changed a few years ago to include allies - it may even have changed retrospectively to accommodate the donation of a Tornado. By that time the Beaufighter was virtually complete so it doesn't seem surprising that it was finished in US marks.

Whatever the arguments for or against different aircraft types and markings I can see that the implementation of a clear policy gives good direction to acquisition and display of artefacts. In contrast, and not necessarily a bad thing, the NASM does not have a defined policy and, as a result, has a huge and eclectic mixture of types, periods and nationalities.

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Tony Andrews

[quote="JDK"]
It might be worth a thought that in the USAF Museum, the United States' enemies are better represented than her Allies in the W.W.II gallery. Two Spitfires in US colo(u)rs a combat veteran Australian Beau in US colors, a DH Mosquito in US colors. I presume it's the museum's policy, which they are entitled to, but those that flew alongside the brave men of the USAF in other air forces might feel aggrieved at being so neatly written out in favour of a quick repaint and promotion of the Fascist enemy?
[quote]

I'm not so sure about that JDK. I'm always interested and proud about US aircraft that have served with other Air Arms. The Museum in Ottawa has a Liberator in Canadian markings and in fact, I don't recall any US aircraft there with US markings on them. (though I may be wrong on that)

The Lib in England is also in British Markings (not the US Museum at Duxford) and I really like the Martlet and Corsair in RN markings.
I'm proud they served with our allies and am thrilled to see them in their sevice colors. (should that be "colours"? )

I think the fact that the Axis is better represented at the Museum of the USAF is just a fact that the US as a whole, did not operate as many British types as did the British and Commonwealth Countries operating American types.
I'm also very excited to have the opportunity to actually see a Beau up close, regardless of the paint scheme.
I don't think there is a right or wrong here, just a point of perspective and presenation.
Blue skies,
Jerry

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"Always remember that, when you enter the ocean or the forest, you are no longer at the top of the food chain."

I believe that the NMUSAF's focus now is to represent all aircraft that the U.S. operated and the in the schemes that they operated in. Without this most people who visit the museum would never know that U.S. forces employed non-domestic aircraft designs. And while the U.S. never operated the Mk. I's, it is as close the Mk. VIf as they could get at the moment.

The museum is still continueing to expand with an additional 2 more hangars. This will allow the museum's collection to grow to include whole collections of allied aircraft and equipment as well as enemies. In their respective colors of course. The museum's Soviet side of the house has grown signifcantly as of late. The museum currently has several British aircraft on display, that maintain their "Union Jack" livery, if you will. So hope is not lost.

As anyone knows everything has it's price. I'm sure that if someone were ever to recover and restore an actual Mk. VIf (especially if were a U.S. operated Beau) and offer a trade to the NMUSAF for the Mk. I, that they seriouly consider it. One case and point being the HA1112 be traded for the Bf 109G-10. As well as some years ago a Mk. XVIe Spitfire was traded. For what I can't seem to recall(I want to say for another Spit). I believe it now resides in New Zealand. Have faith, just because the MK. I Beau is currently displayed in Dayton, does not mean it will indefinatly. There will always continuely to be a "Bigger and Better Deal" out there.

Shay
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Semper Fortis

Hi :I think allot of folks are missing the point. They are painted in U.S. colors for one reason and that is the museum wants to display a representative of every a/c that the Air Force operated under their command.Im sure that if duplicates were available there would be one marked as such.During the early part of the war America was not geared up enough to meet the demands of combat but through a reverse lend lease agrement with the Brits the U.S. operated a/c manufactured by Britain but marked in U.S. colors manned by U.S. crewmen.Like their decisions or not the current staff has doubled the number of a/c and size of the museum in a very short time. Allot of effort and expence has been put foreward to provide as complete of a collection of a/c operated by the Air Force as possible.I understand that the A25 will be the last a/c to go into the ww2 collection.As time goes on possibly more allied and enemy a/c will be available for display but their focus is geared more to the types operated by the Air Force thus the name Air Force Museum. The A25 is another good example ,it was originaly built under contract for the Army Air Corps Transfered to the Navy,transfered again to the Marines.My dream was to paint and display it as the a/c recovered from its wartime crash site as a memorial to the 4 brave men that died on that cold and rainy morning in Sept. of 1944,but that would represent a Marine Corps a/c in a Air Force collection it aint going to happen!Many would say it should be painted in a blue sceme as the Navy was the largest operater of the SB2C family but would that look right at the Air Force Museum?Would folks realize that the Air Force operated 410 of the type painted o.d and gray?Lets face it we all have a love for a/c but with out the foresite of the museum several of these a/c would not be available anywere.I have 3 more SB2Cs/A25s available but trust me no one is exactly beating my door down to build one for them. Dont worry be happy that you can see such rare types on U.S. soil and please be sure to thank those involved that made it happen. The paint job issue has always been a hot bed of comments but as it has been stated before if you bought it and its yours paint it how you like.If you cant handle that start saving all of your nickles and dimes and someday you can change the world the way you want it until then be happy that they survive at all!!! Thanks Mike

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IF YOU CAN FIND IT WE CAN FIX IT

Don't even get some people started on the ME 262 paint scheme.

Shay
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Semper Fortis