PBY Scrapped?!?

[Django]

Hearing the other side of the story, I understand the dilemma. But it still seems like it could be ok for static display. Since I have no idea what it takes financially to do such a thing, how much money are we talking?

Hell, if it saves it from getting cut up, I'm sure I can find some room on the farm...

[Robbie Stuart]

Doug, John, Thank you for your comments. As far as the B-23 goes, I am very interested as I was the Crew Chief for N62G, & the Cajun Wing Maint. Officer that grounded the aircraft due to the corrision issues. I am a CAF Life Member, & a founding member of the Dixie Wing. (though no longer active). Believe me, if I had the resources, I would be more than happy to contribute. That's just not the case though. My hat goes off to you guys that are there in the middle of things doing your best to keep these machines in the air. Hopefully someday I will have the time again to get in there & get my hands dirty again. If I ever hit the lottery I will write a big check. Thanks guys for all you do.
Robbie

[retroaviation]

Guys, I look at that B-23 every single day, while working on the B-29 & B-24A. It's killin' me to see it slowly dying right in front of my eyes. I can promise y'all this though, I have tried, and will keep trying, to find somebody somewhere to help me and whoever else gets on my bandwagon to get the Dragon at least back in static condition......not to mention some other aircraft that are discussed on this website.

We all know that the CAF hasn't been perfect in the nearly 50 years that it's been in existence, but Doug is right when he says that there are many aircraft still around because of the CAF. Anyone out there who can help guys like me, Doug, Robbie, John, and many many others keep what's left of these airplanes around, please step up and help us make a difference.

Sorry for the rant.

Gary Austin

[Robbie Stuart]

Thank you too Gary.
Robbie

[John Beyl]

Doug, John, Thank you for your comments. As far as the B-23 goes, I am very interested as I was the Crew Chief for N62G, & the Cajun Wing Maint. Officer that grounded the aircraft due to the corrision issues. I am a CAF Life Member, & a founding member of the Dixie Wing. (though no longer active). Believe me, if I had the resources, I would be more than happy to contribute. That's just not the case though. My hat goes off to you guys that are there in the middle of things doing your best to keep these machines in the air. Hopefully someday I will have the time again to get in there & get my hands dirty again. If I ever hit the lottery I will write a big check. Thanks guys for all you do.
Robbie

Bobbie,

I’m going to do my friendly rant and lecture for a few minutes here so bear with me! With all due respect, it’s not just about personal financial resources. God knows if it was and the C model project depended on mine, it would still be lying in complete ruins. I contribute my time, mechanical skills, thought processes, ideas to the project. Some of that includes promotional ideas, seeking potential sponsors, etc. If you still feel strongly about “Your” airplane, it does not matter where on earth it is located, you can be the person who gets the momentum going behind it again to restore it. Every project needs a PaPa. You could return the B-23 and be its motivating force. Create a viable plan and present it to HQ…I guarantee you will at least be heard out and more than likely you will be offered a lot of help doing the leg work to get things rolling. Start collecting a crew and put together a fund raising effort and get it done. Just do it!!! When you get some jingle, find a place near your home to work on it (It does not have to be an expensive airport location either!) and start the process of finding qualified mechanical people to help. Go to Midland and bring it to your shop sub section at a time. A monumental task? Without question…but you and the right people helping you will make it possible. I can’t slides out of the mouth too easy, especially when the task seems insurmountable. At first I thought the C model was an absolute loss. How could a pile of ruins like that ever be worth a miner’s nickel again? A few people who allowed me to cry on their shoulder reassured me that there was a lot of airplane left there and to give up on it would be a miscarriage of justice. In the course of one day they turned my attitude from “Impossible” to “how soon can we be flying again?” It’s a good life lesson to keep in mind with whatever you are challenged with. “I/we can’t” is not a viable option…and don’t ever try and lay it on me or say it around me! Think outside the box to make it happen but keep it legal…you’ll succeed.

John

[Robbie Stuart]

John, thank you for your honesty. I respect a man that speaks his mind & is able to be precise & to the point. Fact is yes I am interested in the B-23, & will always be. But I am not interested enough, nor do I have the time & the qualities you spoke of to try & commit myself to any project of that magnitude. I can't seem to find time to get my things done around the house. So since I ain't gonna put up - then I will shut up. I will say this, that when I get that fire in me going enough to get active again, theres a deal that I helped get started down the road in Peachtree City, & I know those guys could use my help. Thanks again.
With Best Regards
Robbie

[Broken-Wrench]

CAF DON"T BE JUG HEADS!! PUT IT ON EBAY AND AT LEAST GET SOMETHING OUT OF IT! hulks sell on ebay all the time for big money. If you throw it in the dupster without trying selling it I never send you another dime.

[marine air]

My suggestion is that the CAF re- evaluate their assets and their mission. Not in lofty goals but in real dollars and cents. It seems the CAF is a flying club that remains afloat through paid appearances and donations.
Why not divest themselve of projects that may never fly again, and focus and building spares and supplies to keep the airworthy fleet airworthy. THey seem to do an excellent job with several of their types like the P-51's, the Helldiver and dauntless.
Maybe they should re-assess what business they are in. Do away with the airplanes that are not financially viable, to raise cash to get a higher % of their fleet operating profitably. They would be better off to sale all three PBY projects, raise whatever cash they can, and then get a flyable one and raise the balance needed from donations. FLyable projects generate larger cash donations, than those that seem impossible. I applaud their sale of the Zero and the Buchon, idle assets that haven't generated any income in many years.

[Broken-Wrench]

My suggestion is that the CAF re- evaluate their assets and their mission. Not in lofty goals but in real dollars and cents. It seems the CAF is a flying club that remains afloat through paid appearances and donations.
Why not divest themselve of projects that may never fly again, and focus and building spares and supplies to keep the airworthy fleet airworthy. THey seem to do an excellent job with several of their types like the P-51's, the Helldiver and dauntless.
Maybe they should re-assess what business they are in. Do away with the airplanes that are not financially viable, to raise cash to get a higher % of their fleet operating profitably. They would be better off to sale all three PBY projects, raise whatever cash they can, and then get a flyable one and raise the balance needed from donations. FLyable projects generate larger cash donations, than those that seem impossible. I applaud their sale of the Zero and the Buchon, idle assets that haven't generated any income in many years.

Good point Marine air!

[retroaviation]

I had posted a rather unprofessional response to all of this moments ago, but decided to delete it.

I could only suggest (in a nice, calm manner) that everyone actually read the previous posts in this thread. You may find some interesting information that states that the PBY has NOT gone to the scrap dealers and the title of the aircraft has NOT been released to anyone.

The General Staff of the CAF would have to address the sale of the B-23, or any of our other static aircraft. Some of which are already for sale, such as our JRB-4 (Twin Beech). Many of you (including Marine Air) were already aware of that.

Gary

[Nathan]

I would be willing to throw some money in there to save that
PBY if anyone would be willing to save it. It wouldn't be much, but maybe a starter. Even for a partial static display. It'd still look cool. And if it doesn't work, then use the money for the B-23? Just an idea....

-Nate

I’m going to do my friendly rant and lecture for a few minutes here so bear with me! With all due respect, it’s not just about personal financial resources. God knows if it was and the C model project depended on mine, it would still be lying in complete ruins. I contribute my time, mechanical skills, thought processes, ideas to the project. Some of that includes promotional ideas, seeking potential sponsors, etc. If you still feel strongly about “Your” airplane, it does not matter where on earth it is located, you can be the person who gets the momentum going behind it again to restore it. Every project needs a PaPa. You could return the B-23 and be its motivating force. Create a viable plan and present it to HQ…I guarantee you will at least be heard out and more than likely you will be offered a lot of help doing the leg work to get things rolling. Start collecting a crew and put together a fund raising effort and get it done. Just do it!!! When you get some jingle, find a place near your home to work on it (It does not have to be an expensive airport location either!) and start the process of finding qualified mechanical people to help. Go to Midland and bring it to your shop sub section at a time. A monumental task? Without question…but you and the right people helping you will make it possible. I can’t slides out of the mouth too easy, especially when the task seems insurmountable. At first I thought the C model was an absolute loss. How could a pile of ruins like that ever be worth a miner’s nickel again? A few people who allowed me to cry on their shoulder reassured me that there was a lot of airplane left there and to give up on it would be a miscarriage of justice. In the course of one day they turned my attitude from “Impossible” to “how soon can we be flying again?” It’s a good life lesson to keep in mind with whatever you are challenged with. “I/we can’t” is not a viable option…and don’t ever try and lay it on me or say it around me! Think outside the box to make it happen but keep it legal…you’ll succeed.

John

[Alan Brooks]

I am greatful Doug, Robbie, John, and others have responded. Cause, on this PBY, I don't know jack! However, I'm waiting for "Old Shep" to show up, but he might be coaching a basketball game tonight. The move from Harlingen was not a bed of roses. Besides the personality conflicts, there many decisions made concerning a lot of aircraft, some good, some bad. The PBY was not the only aircraft left at that time.... the B-23 was left (at Harlingen) as well. However, Bill Coombes (Old Shep), Steve Rister, and many, many others of the High Sky Wing (Midland) got her assigned to the wing. They traveled to Harlingen, took her apart and brought her back. Inspections and work had commenced when some serious corrosion issues were discovered. One hundred thousand dollars (remember volunteer labor) to get airborne was going to very quickly become 500-600k. Bill can better tell the tale. Concerning the sale of some of the CAF assetts, yes this has been occurring. If you took a look at the "Hill" this past airshow.... it is amazing the transformation, let alone the stuff re-discovered. These parts are offered to CAF units first.... if no takers, then they are offered on the the open market...... Most of the items have sold very quickly........ Now for Gary....... NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE has ever accomplished as much at Midland on airplanes and parts etc.... with as little money or help as Gary. Period! No offense to Bill, Doug, Randy. To borrow a phrase "Junk to Jewelry", Gary has the touch.... It also requires 16-20hrs a day...... just look. Gary, has the paint been stripped from "Lil"?

[Ztex]

I feel kinda weird to have started this thread and have it end up in a heated discussion. I expected the passions of this group to come to the surface. I didn't want it to get ugly...which it "almost" has. I was upset when I read that the PBY may have been scrapped. It is hard for me to understand any warbird being scrapped in this day and time. I see a flying P-38 brought out of the ice cap and think, sure why not, there will be room for a PBY fuselage in the future. I'm glad to see the same passion that I have, albeit on a smaller scale ( My wife just rolled here eyes when I told her about this... )

But...I think it has been instructive and constructive!

About the CAF...

I don't think the warbird movement would be near what it is today if not for them. I worked on the B-17 Chuckie for several years and when ever I told people about it they asked...Is that a CAF deal? That is all most of the general public knows about WWII airplanes...the CAF does that....

When I was a kid the CAF was IT! I wasn't a Chino kid, so I had no idea there were others all I knew was they were doing it and they looked cool in their jumpsuits with the funny blood chit on the back and I wanted to help!



I want to be a kid again!

Z

[Alan Brooks]

Z-Tex, keep it up!!!!!! Anymore of those Hispano pics???? Drooling!!!!! Alan
Did not mean to rant earlier...... fingers got carried away....

[airnutz]

Did not mean to rant earlier...... fingers got carried away....

I didn't realize it was a rant Alan, I thought it was most informative...
added to John Beyl's info on inspection 8 or 9 yrs ago. The only thing missing
was the time period the PBY was TOWED to Brownsville. Blown engine,
SERIOUS corrosion issues and barely usable parts salvaged for the Minnesota bird
shows this to be a machine to be pretty much done for. By all means, if
you want it in your yard, I'm guessing it's yours if you want to haul it off.
(Does intergranular corrosion aluminum scrap price vary with the price
of "good" aluminium prices?) Make a scrappers offer or offer what you can
and see if CAF will take it...

As for the Dragon, someone who may want to put money into the B-23..
may not, in the end, want it to remain a CAF property. The General Staff
I'm guessing might not like the thought of "letting go", but some of their
decisions or prioritizing in the past..have brought the PBY and B-23 issue
where they are today. The Princesses need something, so no dollars for the bridesmaids.

RetroA, your a miracle worker by all accounts, but working on the B-23
during your sleep-time is a call above and beyond the call...

I'm not being judgemental here..what's done is done. I've been a fan over the
years since back in the day of the white/red/blue birds.
My allowance money as a kid bought calenders, concessions, a few bucks
donation or in later years admission tickets. I currently have a pathological
...umm.."dislike", of Public Address systems drowning out my airplane
sounds so nowadays, for the most part, I attend airshows off-field. I've
seen P-51's, Corsairs, Jugs, '17s..blahh..blah..blah. A B-23 in bomber fitment
would be too tempting to resist..I might go off-field to watch and listen to 'em,
but I'd love to see one up close, personal, and flying.

Sighhhned,
Not Gett'n Any Younger In Texas

Edit, Dunno where the Mig 3 comment came from..trying to hurry and shut
down for a T-storm...chopped out my emotional crap.

Last edited by airnutz on Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:25 am, edited 2 times in total.