Decals on evilBay. Steve T have a look!
Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:47 pm
Has anyone bought any of the decals from this guy? Lots of interesting subjects, but how good are they...
http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsassZdavid0671967QQhtZ-1
T J
http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsassZdavid0671967QQhtZ-1
T J
Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:01 am
Ive never seen them before. But all of the feedback is positive! Which one you looking to get TJ?
Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:46 pm
Far to many to choose from. Sea Fury N588 in the red/white colors is my favourite Fury scheme so that is probarbly the number one. Bill Stead and John Church Bearcats are quite likely. Sliker's Bearcat the same. Remember walking past the rear fuselage and tail with the #4 quite often back some 15 years ago. I already have the decals for Charlie Tucker's pair of P-63s from a different supplier (and the drop tanks are in the mail as we speak). I would probarbly have thought about Cobra I and II, but they are now available from Accurate Miniatures as a complete 1/48 kit!
T J
T J
Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:04 pm
I met the guy who makes these and have seen them, they are very good quality. Happy modeling-
Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:13 pm
Hi TJ--
Thanx for that vector...have seen a few racer decals before but this is an entirely new source. I see the guy's done "my" Russ Hosler P-63A; at least it looks like he had the courtesy to do so only in 1:48, my Cobra being 1:72!
The versions of Cobra II he's got do not seem to include Tex Johnston's race 84 from the '46 Thompson, so no real overlap with the recent kit release, either. And all those Furies...including two versions of ex-RCN contender WG567. Hm. Could get expensive... 
Cheers
S.
Thanx for that vector...have seen a few racer decals before but this is an entirely new source. I see the guy's done "my" Russ Hosler P-63A; at least it looks like he had the courtesy to do so only in 1:48, my Cobra being 1:72!
The versions of Cobra II he's got do not seem to include Tex Johnston's race 84 from the '46 Thompson, so no real overlap with the recent kit release, either. And all those Furies...including two versions of ex-RCN contender WG567. Hm. Could get expensive...
Cheers
S.
Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:24 am
He's definately got a good selection to choose from. My main concern are those sheets which include a lot of yellow, as from all sources I've seen yellow doesn't go very well with ALPS printing!
T J
T J
Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:11 pm
These decals caught my interest after I read this thread, and the decals that I ordered came today. I thought I would bash out a quick review for you guys. You might also like the accompanying pics of the subject aircraft, which are from its appearances at Oshkosh 1976 and 1978 (when it was still Tipsy Miss) and 1980.
I ordered the 1/72 decals for Mike Smith's P-63 racer "What Price Speed?" This was the first 63 that I ever saw and photographed, as well as the first souped-up unlimited. I always liked the orange paint scheme.
The decals are finely printed and in good register. The representations of the "What Price Speed?" logo and Kingcobra design on the door appear to be accurate in both design and coloring. However, I think that the "What Price Speed?" design may be considerably undersized.
The decal includes script to go above and below the Kingcobra design on the door, but these are incorrect. The script above the cobra says "John Sandberg" in white, whereas it should say "Smith Speed Conversions Inc." in black with white lines, as shown above. The script below the door is illegible but also clearly incorrect, and appears to be a representation of the "Tipsy Miss" period rather than the "What Price Speed?" period. The lettering on the engine cover panel is not on the sheet.
I could have lived with all of that, but then I noticed the more glaring inaccuracy. The sheet includes four "28" numerals, but all of them slope to the left, like "\". On the real aircraft, that would be accurate for the port side of the fuselage, but on the starboard side, the "28" sloped to the right, like "/". See pic below:
There is no numeral on the sheet that accurately represents this.
Two of the four "28"s on the sheet are supposed to go above and below the left wing, according to the 4-view drawing which is all the documentation you get. When I saw this aircraft and in all the pics I have of it, it had no numbers on the wings at all:
In addition, the N-number and two tiny Champion logos are provided. The 4-view does not indicate where to put the Champion logos. "What Price Speed?" actually had Pennzoil, not Champion, logos on the end plates of its clipped wingtips; however, in its late Tipsy Miss days, it did have Champion decals as shown below:
The 4-view incorrectly directs that the N-number be placed on the fuselage below the horizontal stab, where actually it should be up on the vertical fin.
Finally, the 4-view does a poor job of assisting the modeler in figuring out what physical modifications to the model are needed. The 4-view shows the wings and horizontal stab clipped, but does not say by how much. It does not point out the larger air scoop behind the cockpit, does not illustrate the extensive mods to the wing root fillet at both the leading and trailing edge, and depicts the spinner and exhausts as stock units whereas actually "What Price Speed?" had a pointed spinner with a long probe and a single collector exhaust.
Probably there are other mods to the aircraft that I don't know about that are also not shown. It would also be nice if the sheet contained paint color call-outs for the interior, wheel wells, and other such parts that always vary from stock colors on a custom racing aircraft.
In sum, although I have only examined this one product, I cannot recommend the decals. Because of the incorrect "28" number style, the sheet flunks the fundamental test: you can't use it to create an accurate replica. Beyond that, the documentation is both inaccurate and incomplete. Even if the decals were accurate, the modeler would need a great deal of research material and information to make the correct mods to the kit, paint it the right colors, and place the decals accurately. When a producer charges $8.00 for a decal sheet that measures less than 1 inch by 2 inches, the customer has a right to expect a little more help, it seems to me.
August
I ordered the 1/72 decals for Mike Smith's P-63 racer "What Price Speed?" This was the first 63 that I ever saw and photographed, as well as the first souped-up unlimited. I always liked the orange paint scheme.
The decals are finely printed and in good register. The representations of the "What Price Speed?" logo and Kingcobra design on the door appear to be accurate in both design and coloring. However, I think that the "What Price Speed?" design may be considerably undersized.
The decal includes script to go above and below the Kingcobra design on the door, but these are incorrect. The script above the cobra says "John Sandberg" in white, whereas it should say "Smith Speed Conversions Inc." in black with white lines, as shown above. The script below the door is illegible but also clearly incorrect, and appears to be a representation of the "Tipsy Miss" period rather than the "What Price Speed?" period. The lettering on the engine cover panel is not on the sheet.
I could have lived with all of that, but then I noticed the more glaring inaccuracy. The sheet includes four "28" numerals, but all of them slope to the left, like "\". On the real aircraft, that would be accurate for the port side of the fuselage, but on the starboard side, the "28" sloped to the right, like "/". See pic below:
There is no numeral on the sheet that accurately represents this.
Two of the four "28"s on the sheet are supposed to go above and below the left wing, according to the 4-view drawing which is all the documentation you get. When I saw this aircraft and in all the pics I have of it, it had no numbers on the wings at all:
In addition, the N-number and two tiny Champion logos are provided. The 4-view does not indicate where to put the Champion logos. "What Price Speed?" actually had Pennzoil, not Champion, logos on the end plates of its clipped wingtips; however, in its late Tipsy Miss days, it did have Champion decals as shown below:
The 4-view incorrectly directs that the N-number be placed on the fuselage below the horizontal stab, where actually it should be up on the vertical fin.
Finally, the 4-view does a poor job of assisting the modeler in figuring out what physical modifications to the model are needed. The 4-view shows the wings and horizontal stab clipped, but does not say by how much. It does not point out the larger air scoop behind the cockpit, does not illustrate the extensive mods to the wing root fillet at both the leading and trailing edge, and depicts the spinner and exhausts as stock units whereas actually "What Price Speed?" had a pointed spinner with a long probe and a single collector exhaust.
Probably there are other mods to the aircraft that I don't know about that are also not shown. It would also be nice if the sheet contained paint color call-outs for the interior, wheel wells, and other such parts that always vary from stock colors on a custom racing aircraft.
In sum, although I have only examined this one product, I cannot recommend the decals. Because of the incorrect "28" number style, the sheet flunks the fundamental test: you can't use it to create an accurate replica. Beyond that, the documentation is both inaccurate and incomplete. Even if the decals were accurate, the modeler would need a great deal of research material and information to make the correct mods to the kit, paint it the right colors, and place the decals accurately. When a producer charges $8.00 for a decal sheet that measures less than 1 inch by 2 inches, the customer has a right to expect a little more help, it seems to me.
August
Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:07 am
Thanks August for "sacrificing" your hard earned cash in order for us all to know more about these decals. As I've said before, too bad as the guy has chosen several interesting subjects!
T J
T J
Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:34 am
Keep in mind that this aircraft was being continually modified and even had twin turbochargers at one time. You would have to pick a configuration at a point in time and stick with that. Stickers can change before every race depending on who was giving out free stuf that year.k5083 wrote:These decals caught my interest after I read this thread, and the decals that I ordered came today. I thought I would bash out a quick review for you guys. You might also like the accompanying pics of the subject aircraft, which are from its appearances at Oshkosh 1976 and 1978 (when it was still Tipsy Miss) and 1980.
Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:12 pm
bdk wrote:Keep in mind that this aircraft was being continually modified and even had twin turbochargers at one time. You would have to pick a configuration at a point in time and stick with that. Stickers can change before every race depending on who was giving out free stuf that year.
I have that very much in mind. When doing a decal sheet for a racing aircraft, whose configuration and markings change so frequently, the producer should identify the exact date and race that his decals represent in the life of the aircraft. Or, better yet, provide a few alternate decals for different dates and races, with documentation. My first clue about the careless research on these decals was that no information like that was provided. However, I decided not to hold Thrust Decals up to that high of a standard in my review -- it would have been enough if his decals permitted the modeler to make an accurate representation for any moment. Alas, they did not.
Of course, his other sheets may well be better. There are a lot more pictures around of some of the more recent racers in his line. I suggest at least studying a scan of his decal sheet -- some of his ebay listings have them -- before risking your money.
August
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Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:16 pm
I agree. I remember getting a Monogram B-25 in 1/48 years ago that had a diagonal striped decal sheet for the fuselage. The window hole didn't line up with the window! Frustrating to say the least.
Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:06 pm
Ouch,, but thank you for your honesty,
Well my artist usually uses the reference material we have on hand and sometimes it may fall in between schemes and sometimes not.. These thing change quit a lot and even more during the races. I see by your photos that there is a huge difference between our markings and your photos. I will take advantage of that and have him update our decals.
We are learning what works everyday and the input from people like you really helps. We have already made changes to the instructions and reference materials we send with the decals based on input just like yours.
I feel it is really a good thing to get the input from the people who use the decals to help us make it easier for everyone and to help justify the cost.
We are still getting the thing going and i will say the response from most has been positive. I really hope that you can go to our website and check out the new decals instruction sheets and your idea about the additional markings is great but only if you have reference material that shows the changes to start with otherwise you dont know they were missed. We like it when folks can help us by providing the reference material they have so that we can complete a set of decals with as many options as possible.
If you would like i will forward you the complete set based on the changes i have seen in your photos ,it will take a couple of weeks todo the artwork but then you will have the set you want.
If there is something you want to see in decal form just send us the reference material at the website and we will give you a free set of decals if we use them. what really helps is the detail shots of the markings gear doors pilot names and so on so that we can capture the fonts correctly or as close as can be done. so please let me know and for everyone else please stop by and see us at our new website www.thrustdecalsonline.com
some of the markings are not on the site yet and there are hundreds that we are wanting to list as we get better set up.. we are looking for info on the older t-6 racers so let us know what you think or what you want to see. you can send emails to us at info@thrustdecalsonline.com
And i dont recall getting any email from you say that there was a huge difference how about next time you or anyone else sees a short coming that you emails us and give us a chance to make changes before blasting us in high volume and in public forum like this when we cant defend ourselves or even let you know your are right and allow us to show you what kind of company we are and allow you to see how far we will go to
make things better for all.
This little company is a ton of work and the last time i checked there was not a lot happening in the racing and warbird decals arena...maybe a kit now and then of some very popular racers but not the ones that true fans want to see.... so i hopeto see and hear from you on our website and i hope we can all be friends and get back to making some cool stuff....
Let us know
David
Well my artist usually uses the reference material we have on hand and sometimes it may fall in between schemes and sometimes not.. These thing change quit a lot and even more during the races. I see by your photos that there is a huge difference between our markings and your photos. I will take advantage of that and have him update our decals.
We are learning what works everyday and the input from people like you really helps. We have already made changes to the instructions and reference materials we send with the decals based on input just like yours.
I feel it is really a good thing to get the input from the people who use the decals to help us make it easier for everyone and to help justify the cost.
We are still getting the thing going and i will say the response from most has been positive. I really hope that you can go to our website and check out the new decals instruction sheets and your idea about the additional markings is great but only if you have reference material that shows the changes to start with otherwise you dont know they were missed. We like it when folks can help us by providing the reference material they have so that we can complete a set of decals with as many options as possible.
If you would like i will forward you the complete set based on the changes i have seen in your photos ,it will take a couple of weeks todo the artwork but then you will have the set you want.
If there is something you want to see in decal form just send us the reference material at the website and we will give you a free set of decals if we use them. what really helps is the detail shots of the markings gear doors pilot names and so on so that we can capture the fonts correctly or as close as can be done. so please let me know and for everyone else please stop by and see us at our new website www.thrustdecalsonline.com
some of the markings are not on the site yet and there are hundreds that we are wanting to list as we get better set up.. we are looking for info on the older t-6 racers so let us know what you think or what you want to see. you can send emails to us at info@thrustdecalsonline.com
And i dont recall getting any email from you say that there was a huge difference how about next time you or anyone else sees a short coming that you emails us and give us a chance to make changes before blasting us in high volume and in public forum like this when we cant defend ourselves or even let you know your are right and allow us to show you what kind of company we are and allow you to see how far we will go to
make things better for all.
This little company is a ton of work and the last time i checked there was not a lot happening in the racing and warbird decals arena...maybe a kit now and then of some very popular racers but not the ones that true fans want to see.... so i hopeto see and hear from you on our website and i hope we can all be friends and get back to making some cool stuff....
Let us know
David
Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:00 am
I just got a set of the 1/48 decals for the Mira Slovac Bearcat, and they are spot on. I am very happy with the way they turned out! BTW....how 'bout a 1:48 set for the Big Bossman Tigercat.
Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:22 am
David,
Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry I couldn't say nicer things about this particular sheet. You're welcome to use the photos I posted to improve it. Unfortunately, I don't have many other pics of this bird that would help you. Neither I nor the guy who took the pics is a big air racer fan and neither of us was much into taking those detail-walkaround shots.
I do sometimes work with small decal producers, as well as reference book writers, on their products. I am especially likely to do that if they contact me BEFORE they start taking people's money for an incompletely researched product. A minor error I don't mind. But in this case, the most serious error, the lack of a backward-slanted #28, could not have been made if the artist examined ANY picture of the starboard side of this aircraft at ANY time when it wore the paint scheme represented.
I confined my comments to this single decal sheet, which really is a dud. One sheet is not a fair sample of your work, I know. But, it's all I had to go on, and since hands-on reviews of your stuff were specifically requested by TJ, I felt that my friends on this forum should know about this sheet and draw whatever other conclusions they wanted about your other products. One other person posted a positive comment about your stuff, and your post has elicited an additional one.
Personally, I was going to buy three or four more of your sheets for other aircraft that I do not have enough information to critique as well, but after this sheet I did not have the confidence to do that. I'm glad that you are posting additional information about the decals on your site. The photos of built-up models are especially helpful for evaluating whether the decals are accurate, and it would be great if there was one for every sheet you publish. However, there is still not enough information for almost any of the decal sheets to tell whether they are accurate. The sheet that I reviewed seems to have been removed from your site, but the sheet for the same airplane as "Tipsy Miss", which I presume has the same inaccuracy, shows only a port-side profile which makes it impossible for the consumer to tell, before ordering, that the starboard numeral is wrong. The same goes for your current ebay auctions for both "What Price Speed?" and "Tipsy Miss" (although some listings show a scan of the decal sheet which will tip off a buyer who knows what to look for--if he's on his toes).
You've chosen some great subject matter and I'm very interested in it, especially your growing "Before Warbirds" category which, if you look around this forum, you'll see is of intense interest to many of us here. (I hope you also start an "Early Warbirds" category.) And I know that you are a cottage producer, therefore your resources are limited and as sophisticated buyers, we should be prepared to do a lot of research in using your decals, or before buying them, to make sure they are accurate. But you have to meet us half way.
On your site, please post a complete 4-view showing, accurately, what your decals will look like on the top, bottom, port, and starboard sides of the model. Do this for all of your sheets. Photos of built-up models and scans of the sheets are also helpful but not really necessary if the 4-views show accurately how the decals look. There may be several other aircraft that I and others could help you with, and I for one will be happy to look over your site, comment on any errors I find, and supply the backup. Right now there is not enough info for us to help you -- let alone make an informed purchase decision -- without parting with our money and possibly having a seriously flawed product in our hands.
An even better idea, going forward, would be for you to become a regular on this site, post the 4-views of your new products prior to releasing them, and solicit comments from us BEFORE you start taking people's money for the product. I bet you'd get a huge amount of assistance from this incredibly helpful and knowledgeable online community, and it would make your products a lot better, enhance your goodwill, and probably sell quite a few more decals.
Hoping to hear a lot more from you,
August
Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry I couldn't say nicer things about this particular sheet. You're welcome to use the photos I posted to improve it. Unfortunately, I don't have many other pics of this bird that would help you. Neither I nor the guy who took the pics is a big air racer fan and neither of us was much into taking those detail-walkaround shots.
I do sometimes work with small decal producers, as well as reference book writers, on their products. I am especially likely to do that if they contact me BEFORE they start taking people's money for an incompletely researched product. A minor error I don't mind. But in this case, the most serious error, the lack of a backward-slanted #28, could not have been made if the artist examined ANY picture of the starboard side of this aircraft at ANY time when it wore the paint scheme represented.
I confined my comments to this single decal sheet, which really is a dud. One sheet is not a fair sample of your work, I know. But, it's all I had to go on, and since hands-on reviews of your stuff were specifically requested by TJ, I felt that my friends on this forum should know about this sheet and draw whatever other conclusions they wanted about your other products. One other person posted a positive comment about your stuff, and your post has elicited an additional one.
Personally, I was going to buy three or four more of your sheets for other aircraft that I do not have enough information to critique as well, but after this sheet I did not have the confidence to do that. I'm glad that you are posting additional information about the decals on your site. The photos of built-up models are especially helpful for evaluating whether the decals are accurate, and it would be great if there was one for every sheet you publish. However, there is still not enough information for almost any of the decal sheets to tell whether they are accurate. The sheet that I reviewed seems to have been removed from your site, but the sheet for the same airplane as "Tipsy Miss", which I presume has the same inaccuracy, shows only a port-side profile which makes it impossible for the consumer to tell, before ordering, that the starboard numeral is wrong. The same goes for your current ebay auctions for both "What Price Speed?" and "Tipsy Miss" (although some listings show a scan of the decal sheet which will tip off a buyer who knows what to look for--if he's on his toes).
You've chosen some great subject matter and I'm very interested in it, especially your growing "Before Warbirds" category which, if you look around this forum, you'll see is of intense interest to many of us here. (I hope you also start an "Early Warbirds" category.) And I know that you are a cottage producer, therefore your resources are limited and as sophisticated buyers, we should be prepared to do a lot of research in using your decals, or before buying them, to make sure they are accurate. But you have to meet us half way.
On your site, please post a complete 4-view showing, accurately, what your decals will look like on the top, bottom, port, and starboard sides of the model. Do this for all of your sheets. Photos of built-up models and scans of the sheets are also helpful but not really necessary if the 4-views show accurately how the decals look. There may be several other aircraft that I and others could help you with, and I for one will be happy to look over your site, comment on any errors I find, and supply the backup. Right now there is not enough info for us to help you -- let alone make an informed purchase decision -- without parting with our money and possibly having a seriously flawed product in our hands.
An even better idea, going forward, would be for you to become a regular on this site, post the 4-views of your new products prior to releasing them, and solicit comments from us BEFORE you start taking people's money for the product. I bet you'd get a huge amount of assistance from this incredibly helpful and knowledgeable online community, and it would make your products a lot better, enhance your goodwill, and probably sell quite a few more decals.
Hoping to hear a lot more from you,
August
Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:30 pm
David--
Another subject suggestion...the ill-fated Bud Fountain F8F #24 "Hawke Dusters". One of very few Bearcats to fly in a bare-metal scheme...and I have an old 1:48 Testors "Authentiplate" chrome-plated F8F kit in my basement, sitting there waiting for those markings to show up somewhere!
I agree with August, you'd do well to frequent this forum...a huge chunk of your market is on here very regularly. Hope you'll stick around.
Cheers and welcome to WIX
Steve T
Another subject suggestion...the ill-fated Bud Fountain F8F #24 "Hawke Dusters". One of very few Bearcats to fly in a bare-metal scheme...and I have an old 1:48 Testors "Authentiplate" chrome-plated F8F kit in my basement, sitting there waiting for those markings to show up somewhere!
I agree with August, you'd do well to frequent this forum...a huge chunk of your market is on here very regularly. Hope you'll stick around.
Cheers and welcome to WIX
Steve T