Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:50 pm
Gary,
And with that can you say, minus a few rivets and a .50 cal, that the Belly gunner position is complete?
Also I've been wondering for a while now after looking at the pictures of the interior of "Lil". Is there any plans for painting the inside of "Lil"? I don't really know what is involved in a process such as this, hence the reason I ask.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
And with that can you say, minus a few rivets and a .50 cal, that the Belly gunner position is complete?
Also I've been wondering for a while now after looking at the pictures of the interior of "Lil". Is there any plans for painting the inside of "Lil"? I don't really know what is involved in a process such as this, hence the reason I ask.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:18 pm
Shay wrote:Gary,
And with that can you say, minus a few rivets and a .50 cal, that the Belly gunner position is complete?
Also I've been wondering for a while now after looking at the pictures of the interior of "Lil". Is there any plans for painting the inside of "Lil"? I don't really know what is involved in a process such as this, hence the reason I ask.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
I'd say that the tunnel gun position is getting close to being finished, but only the easy part is actually done.
I still have to fabricate the hinges (got tied up with clerical stuff...am about to start on that now), a latch mechanism, and some other little odds and ends.
The bombardier's section will definitely be painted. It sort of is now, but will be repainted in the correct color of green for the B-24A. As far as the rest of the interior, it's just going to depend on how the time frame looks for this winter. So I reckon my answer is, "I dunno."
Gary
Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:31 am
As always Gary, fantastic work. The Discovery Channel missed out big-time.
Here's a question regarding comments made about Early B-24s and the PBYs. How much content of the B-24A design is drawn from the Catalina lines?
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Here's a question regarding comments made about Early B-24s and the PBYs. How much content of the B-24A design is drawn from the Catalina lines?
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:58 am
And while you're thinking about Shay's question, I just stumbled across this photo--apparently an interior shot of a B-24L.
http://www.liberatorcrew.com/15_Gunnery ... /B-24L.jpg
I hadn't stopped to consider the B-24L (minus the ball turret). Did Consolidated use the old drawings from the B-24A "tunnel gun" mount to facilitate production of this model? Might engineering drawings from the L help you in the work you're doing (or maybe you've already done this and I'm ranting over yesterday's news
)?
Keep 'em flying, Mr. Austin.
http://www.liberatorcrew.com/15_Gunnery ... /B-24L.jpg
I hadn't stopped to consider the B-24L (minus the ball turret). Did Consolidated use the old drawings from the B-24A "tunnel gun" mount to facilitate production of this model? Might engineering drawings from the L help you in the work you're doing (or maybe you've already done this and I'm ranting over yesterday's news
)?
Keep 'em flying, Mr. Austin.
Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:17 pm
Shay, DanK, and anyone else that's interested,
Your questions were waaaay above my head, as I'm just a grease monkey and don't know too much about the development of these airplanes (but I'm learnin'). My Maintenance Officer was kind enough to look up the info you requested, so here's what he had to say..........
The B-24L was an attempt to reduce the increasing weight of the Liberator. Throughout the B-24's development, it's weight continually increased with the addition of more armament, equipment, and armor without any increase in engine power output. In order to combat this problem, the B-24L deleted the Sperry Ball Turret on the bottom and replaced it with either twin, or single .050 cal manually operated machine guns. This was basically regressing back to the rectangle shaped rear crew entry hatch/tunnel gun configuration used on the "D" models; not the different style "A" model tunnel gun. The "L" model also did away with the hydraulically controlled Consolidated A-6B tail turret and replaced it with the new manually operated M-6A "Stinger" tail turret. Look at some "L" model photos and you'll notice the bottom turret just isn't retracted; there isn't even an opening for it.
Also, the B-24 was based on the first aircraft to utilize the Davis wing design, the Consolidated Model P4Y-1 Corregidor.
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/a ... xp4y-1.htm
All of my reference books credit the B-24's initial design roots as being this Model 31, but several of these books actually show a picture of the Model 29, PB2Y-1 (thru 5) Coronado. The Coronado stability problems and later modification from a single tail to the twin tail did play a part of the Liberator design, just not initially.
Obviously, the PBY QEC's on our Liberator had nothing to do with the original "X", or "A" model development; that was a separate post-development story.
I hope that helps clear things up.
Gary
Your questions were waaaay above my head, as I'm just a grease monkey and don't know too much about the development of these airplanes (but I'm learnin'). My Maintenance Officer was kind enough to look up the info you requested, so here's what he had to say..........
The B-24L was an attempt to reduce the increasing weight of the Liberator. Throughout the B-24's development, it's weight continually increased with the addition of more armament, equipment, and armor without any increase in engine power output. In order to combat this problem, the B-24L deleted the Sperry Ball Turret on the bottom and replaced it with either twin, or single .050 cal manually operated machine guns. This was basically regressing back to the rectangle shaped rear crew entry hatch/tunnel gun configuration used on the "D" models; not the different style "A" model tunnel gun. The "L" model also did away with the hydraulically controlled Consolidated A-6B tail turret and replaced it with the new manually operated M-6A "Stinger" tail turret. Look at some "L" model photos and you'll notice the bottom turret just isn't retracted; there isn't even an opening for it.
Also, the B-24 was based on the first aircraft to utilize the Davis wing design, the Consolidated Model P4Y-1 Corregidor.
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/a ... xp4y-1.htm
All of my reference books credit the B-24's initial design roots as being this Model 31, but several of these books actually show a picture of the Model 29, PB2Y-1 (thru 5) Coronado. The Coronado stability problems and later modification from a single tail to the twin tail did play a part of the Liberator design, just not initially.
Obviously, the PBY QEC's on our Liberator had nothing to do with the original "X", or "A" model development; that was a separate post-development story.
I hope that helps clear things up.
Gary
Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:20 pm
Thank you, Mr. Austin.
The only thing I don't like about this post is that it continually reminds me of how much I want to get out to the shop and bang some metal.
Alas, the day job that pays the bills takes priority this time of year.
The only thing I don't like about this post is that it continually reminds me of how much I want to get out to the shop and bang some metal.
Alas, the day job that pays the bills takes priority this time of year.
Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:55 pm
Okay, after posting the update yesterday morning, I said I was going right out to work on the hinges for that tunnel gun door. Well, I was wrong. I don't think I even touched the airplane after about 9 or 10 a.m., due to the sucky part of this crew chief job. Phone calls, parts ordering, Internet traffic (okay, the WIX part is cool), and a newspaper interview were all things that got in the way of progress. They are all things that need to be done, and I don't necssarily mind doing them, but they are momentum killers for sure. I'm not good at any of that stuff. I'm just good at working.
So, after yet another sleepless night worrying about my deadline to finish this thing (been up since 12:30 a.m.), I got here bright and early to get back in the groove of things. I didn't take as many pictures of the step by step process that I should have, but here's what I have to offer.......
My first job of the morning was to get some bracketry made that will eventually bolt to the original tunnel gun structure that is still in the airplane. Unfortunately, much of the structure was removed many moons ago, so this hinge design is being Austinized, rather than being put back to original. Here are the first few brackets and hinge points I made.......
The next step was to either design and fabricate a set of hinges, OR to use some hinges that some other person has engineered and manufactured for another airplane. I chose the latter. I knew those ol' A-26 gear door hinges would come in handy at some point.......
Here's the first hinge in it's imaginary position after I have tack welded the hinge points to the bracket that goes on the structure. Did you get all of that?..........
And here's both hinges in their eventual position.
The next step was kind of fun I reckon. I needed to make a piece of structure that would tie the two hinges together to prevent the door from twisting and to also make the transition from the angle of the x tubes to the slot in the center of the hinge itself. This was accomplished by taking a straight piece of steel and just running it through the bead roller. The resulting beads on the flat piece not only look cool (which is always important ), but also add the necessary strength I will need to hold all of this in place. Here's the first bead while it was being rolled....
And here's the piece that was once flat and flimsy that now has the strength to tie those hinges together. This piece will be welded to the framework soon. I will only tack everything together during the assembly of this entire project though........
The last piece I made today was the 90 degree angle that will be welded to the previously mentioned piece of structure (which, of course, is kind of tough to see in this picture). There will be two of these angles and each of them will bolt to it's own hinge. Here is what it looks like right now...........
I am confident that I will be back out here early in the morning tomorrow to keep pressing on with this. I am hoping to have this stinkin' door swinging by about 8 a.m. That's my goal anyway. After these hinges are done, I'll start on the latching mechanism. I'll start losing sleep over that design tonight.
Gary
So, after yet another sleepless night worrying about my deadline to finish this thing (been up since 12:30 a.m.), I got here bright and early to get back in the groove of things. I didn't take as many pictures of the step by step process that I should have, but here's what I have to offer.......
My first job of the morning was to get some bracketry made that will eventually bolt to the original tunnel gun structure that is still in the airplane. Unfortunately, much of the structure was removed many moons ago, so this hinge design is being Austinized, rather than being put back to original. Here are the first few brackets and hinge points I made.......
The next step was to either design and fabricate a set of hinges, OR to use some hinges that some other person has engineered and manufactured for another airplane. I chose the latter. I knew those ol' A-26 gear door hinges would come in handy at some point.......
Here's the first hinge in it's imaginary position after I have tack welded the hinge points to the bracket that goes on the structure. Did you get all of that?..........
And here's both hinges in their eventual position.
The next step was kind of fun I reckon. I needed to make a piece of structure that would tie the two hinges together to prevent the door from twisting and to also make the transition from the angle of the x tubes to the slot in the center of the hinge itself. This was accomplished by taking a straight piece of steel and just running it through the bead roller. The resulting beads on the flat piece not only look cool (which is always important
), but also add the necessary strength I will need to hold all of this in place. Here's the first bead while it was being rolled....
And here's the piece that was once flat and flimsy that now has the strength to tie those hinges together. This piece will be welded to the framework soon. I will only tack everything together during the assembly of this entire project though........
The last piece I made today was the 90 degree angle that will be welded to the previously mentioned piece of structure (which, of course, is kind of tough to see in this picture). There will be two of these angles and each of them will bolt to it's own hinge. Here is what it looks like right now...........
I am confident that I will be back out here early in the morning tomorrow to keep pressing on with this. I am hoping to have this stinkin' door swinging by about 8 a.m. That's my goal anyway. After these hinges are done, I'll start on the latching mechanism. I'll start losing sleep over that design tonight.
Gary
Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:12 am
Gary the Energizer Co. called,The Bunny is out they want you!
Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:24 am
phil65 wrote:Gary the Energizer Co. called,The Bunny is out they want you!
I don't know how to play the drums.
Gary
Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:48 am
Well, just before my self-imposed 8 a.m. deadline on getting that tunnel gun swinging, I have just finished it. I think this is the first time in years I've actually finished something before the deadline was up. It's not like this is a real big deal or anything, but it is progress.
The first thing I did this morning (besides checking WIX), was to bend up the second hinge holder upper thingy and then tack weld it on in it's proper location. After that, I needed to finish forming the piece of structure that I made yesterday that interconnects the two hinges (you know...that little piece of metal that I put through the bead roller). Well, the way I designed it, I had the ends of that piece hang over the outboard edge of the tubing it was welded to so that the ends would form to the tubing and add more strength. So now that the hinge holder-uppers were both tacked in place, I was able to form those ends over the tubing. This was simply accomplished by taking a rose bud tip on the torch and heating the metal, followed by some old fashioned blacksmith work...just finessing it over with a hammer.........
And here's the finished result. Right after this, I tack welded this portion into place as well.......
So finally, I was ready to fit the hinges to the framework and then install it all on the airplane. I still have the seemingly never ending trimming and persuading to do in order to make everything fit like I want, but the door definitely swings now!
These shots are of the outside view, then inside view of the door closed, followed by the inside view of it hinged open.......
So the next step for me (once the previously mentioned trimming is done) will be to fabricate the latching mechanism for the door. I'll post progress on that when I get something done to it.
Oh, and don't get me wrong here. There are other little projects on the airplane that are getting slowly whittled away as well. I just think I'll save some of these as a surprise and show them when we're finished.
Gary
It's not like this is a real big deal or anything, but it is progress.
The first thing I did this morning (besides checking WIX), was to bend up the second hinge holder upper thingy and then tack weld it on in it's proper location. After that, I needed to finish forming the piece of structure that I made yesterday that interconnects the two hinges (you know...that little piece of metal that I put through the bead roller). Well, the way I designed it, I had the ends of that piece hang over the outboard edge of the tubing it was welded to so that the ends would form to the tubing and add more strength. So now that the hinge holder-uppers were both tacked in place, I was able to form those ends over the tubing. This was simply accomplished by taking a rose bud tip on the torch and heating the metal, followed by some old fashioned blacksmith work...just finessing it over with a hammer.........
And here's the finished result. Right after this, I tack welded this portion into place as well.......
So finally, I was ready to fit the hinges to the framework and then install it all on the airplane. I still have the seemingly never ending trimming and persuading to do in order to make everything fit like I want, but the door definitely swings now!
These shots are of the outside view, then inside view of the door closed, followed by the inside view of it hinged open.......
So the next step for me (once the previously mentioned trimming is done) will be to fabricate the latching mechanism for the door. I'll post progress on that when I get something done to it.
Oh, and don't get me wrong here. There are other little projects on the airplane that are getting slowly whittled away as well. I just think I'll save some of these as a surprise and show them when we're finished.
Gary
Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:29 am
That's just awesome Gary!
I can't tell you how much fun and interesting it is to literally see what goes into a project like this.
I'm sure your updates are helping to open a lot of eyes around the WIX as to the amount of work and talent that is needed to accomplish work of this kind.
Many have never had the oppoprtunity to watch how all this stuff gets done. Your postings have all made us "participants" in the project. When "Lil" gets back on the circut, I'm sure there will be more than a few WIX'ers, me included, that'll want to see the mods up close, so don't be surprised if you're swamped by "geeks like me" wanting a "private" tour of your work!!!!
Thanks so much for what you are doing, we all appreciate it!
Nice job!
Blue skies,
Jerry
I can't tell you how much fun and interesting it is to literally see what goes into a project like this.
I'm sure your updates are helping to open a lot of eyes around the WIX as to the amount of work and talent that is needed to accomplish work of this kind.
Many have never had the oppoprtunity to watch how all this stuff gets done. Your postings have all made us "participants" in the project. When "Lil" gets back on the circut, I'm sure there will be more than a few WIX'ers, me included, that'll want to see the mods up close, so don't be surprised if you're swamped by "geeks like me" wanting a "private" tour of your work!!!!
Thanks so much for what you are doing, we all appreciate it!
Nice job!
Blue skies,
Jerry
thanks for the update gary
Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:36 am
Why is it that it looks like a door fitted in a battlship?
Re: thanks for the update gary
Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:46 am
peter wrote:Why is it that it looks like a door fitted in a battlship?
Well, because Consolidated built flying boats, of course.
Actually, these early "A" models were the only ones with the oval tunnel gun door. The later ones, like the one pictured in the link that DanK put up just a few posts ago, are square. The oval door made it more difficult to go in and out of, but as an "A" model, that's what this airplane had, so that's what I made.
Gary
Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:57 am
Gary,
I've been watching in amazement at your work and it is Sierra Hotel! You're a great talent and I'm amazed at the magic guys like you bring to these classic machines much as I am at the work of artists like Wade who work wonders on canvas! Cool stuff!
I've been watching in amazement at your work and it is Sierra Hotel! You're a great talent and I'm amazed at the magic guys like you bring to these classic machines much as I am at the work of artists like Wade who work wonders on canvas! Cool stuff!
Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:04 am
Gary
Can you give us a SITREP regarding your status with volunteers? Do those of us who, due geographic difficulties, can't phyiscally contribute need to continue drum up volunteer support for you guys?
Do folks need to contact you ahead of time or do you take walk-ins?
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Can you give us a SITREP regarding your status with volunteers? Do those of us who, due geographic difficulties, can't phyiscally contribute need to continue drum up volunteer support for you guys?
Do folks need to contact you ahead of time or do you take walk-ins?
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis