Warbird Information Exchange

David, the only reason Swamp Ghost wasn't hacked apart for scrap years ago like practically every other warbird wreck down there is due to its inaccessable location. Your previous statement sounded as if you were actually giving credit to PNG's general population for their pro-active response toward warbird preservation! History shows that there is no appreciable degree of love for such things in PNG unless there is something to be gained either monetarily or politically.

Hundreds of B-17s were certainly smelted here in the US after the war, but immeasurable efforts have also been lavished on dozens of examples that have been preserved. Those involved in the warbird movement deserve much congratulations for siezing the moment and taking action to save as many examples as possible once it became clear that these planes were rapidly approaching extinction (4+ decades ago). The response to Swamp Ghost's disposition is the result of that continued call to action.

On the contrary, it's unfortunate that the same PNG government officials that you feel are beyond reproach continue to offer little or no security for the Swamp Ghost even now. Much the same as the US Navy Historical Center's political outlook; I would not be suprised to see Swamp Ghost destroyed by a typhoon while waiting at the docks while the PNG government determines how best to deal with the implied insult that someone might have a higher regard for national heritage than they do.

There's a reason the PNG government will never be able to round up the resources to properly preserve and house this single aircraft - because there's not enough public interest among their entire population to justify the expense! This will push the PNG governent into the default position of determining how much money they can squeeze out of their lemon. I would not be suprised to see them demand too much money, thus derailing the recovery, after which Swamp Ghost will be left in limbo to rot away at the saltwater docks as yet another unwitting monument to greed and political ineptness.

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Rob Mears
'Surviving Corsairs' Historian
robcmears@yahoo.com
http://www.robmears.com

The only thing the PNG government is angry about is that they think they missed out on getting some money. They are not trying to preserve that aircraft, make it a display, or anything. As for people taking stuff out of it, guns were found in the nearby village.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

It was my understanding that SG's armorment remained intact until 1972 when all "accessible" weapons were confiscated by the RAAF shortly after discovey of the wreck

Shay
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Semper Fortis

I read in a report form the USAF that two of the 50 cals were found in a nearby village along with some parts. I am not sure what the other parts were.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

It's definately possible,

but I also have to imagine old .50 cals are common place around PNG.

Shay
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Semper Fortis

I agree, all I am saying in the long run is that they are mad that they are going to lose the aircraft, but it was going to be destroyed if it is left there.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Rob - it's not strictly true that the B-17's have been appreciated for 4 plus decades. Back in the 1970's B-17's were still doing fire bomber duty and being sadly lost so maybe their recent perceived value has actually made preservation more viable for the breed. Indeed there are 'preserved' examples in the U.S which are not in wonderful condition.
As for the 'Swamp Ghost' - if I am not mistaken it wasn't the PNG governent who moved her to the dockside or has rendered her small enough to go inside containers! The risk of hurricane damage is indeed a real possibility - something that wasn't that likely when she was stuck in the swamp. There seems to be a notion that the PNG government has in some way put her under threat when in reality her rate of deteioration for the past six decades seems rather slower than anything that has happened to her recently . But the idea is still there that the people of PNG cannot look after anything and we are doing them a big favour by removing any aircraft that are left in the country.

Unbelievable !!!

So just based on vague rumours (i've heard that or i've read that, ...) most people now think and agree that the team, that spent such huge efforts (and money) to properly dismantle and airlift a B-17 out of nowhere, has now gone to Lae wharf with chain saws and jut cut "SG" into small pieces to smuggle it out of the country !!!

Come on ! Truth probably is that none of us now actually know what is happening there. It's bad for the nerves but good for "SG".

Regards,

Laurent

What? A voice of reason! Are you sure you are on the right thread?

Here is how we can look at this. SG was going to return to her natural elements if she was left in the swamp any longer. Are you guys saying that they should hav eleft glacier girl in the ice? It is the same thing. NO ONE IS GOING TO GO To PNG TO SEE THIS AIRCRAFT. The people that live there don't even care about it. The government cares about it because of money. Now as for the B-17's here in the states that are said to be in bad shape, most museums accept volunteers to go and help with the aircraft. I am sure they would be thriiled to have you. I don't know of any B-17's here in the states that are in bad shape that are not under some sort of restoration.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Almost every B-17 that is on outside display that is ultimately entrusted to the NMUSAF is deteriorating. Some were the last of the fire bombers and were flown into the bases where they were put on display. Because of the nonoperational policy enforced by the NMUSAF most if not all of the engines are locked up, corrosion is common, and in some cases nonrepaired vandalism has occurred. They can't pull them all back to Dayton.

Those previous links to Wabirds.Net or whatever didn't work for me, so this may be a double up, but the latest news at www.swampghost.com confirms two containers have disappeared.

http://www.theswampghost.com/news/2006/ ... index.html

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Rick, are you actually comparing corrosion in a restored B-17 on static display to the Swamp Ghost? You are saying that because they are on static display in an air park that they are in the same condition as SG that was laying in mud and water for 60 years?! I am sorry, but I don't see it that way. While it is true that these planes on out door display are not in the same shape as the Shoo Shoo Baby, or what the Memphis Belle will be in when we are done with her, they are still in every way a restored example of the Fort. SG is a wreck. Soem of the aircraft have locked up engines from out door display. True, but they are not ones that fly. Not every aircraft should fly. We need both flyable and static examples of aircraft ot be restored. I feel that the B-17's here in the states are just fine, and are going to continue to get better. As for SG, her best chance for survival is to get out of PNG. Do you know why the Belle is in such poor shape? Because people said, "We should leave it in Memphis." Now I have nothing against the restoration team in Memphis becasue they did what they could for the old gal. If it wasn't for them, she wouldn't be here today. But the most famous B-17 should be in the National museum. People actaully sent Linda Morgan death threats form Memphis when we she was trying to get the plane moved to Dayton. I feel that most of the remaining B-17's are in good shape, or have efforts underway to fix what ever is wrong with them.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Never compared any US B17's condition to SG.

There are B-17s that fall under the NMUSAF's purview that aren't getting the attention they deserve.

Some of those aircraft have been discussed right here on WIX.

In a thread about the Swmap Ghost you said the above. I feel that you compared them. now I am new guy here so I don't know what you guys talked about in the past. Which B-17's are in such rough shape as the Swamp Ghost that the NMUSAF owns? The B-17 in the worst shape that I can think of is Tallichet's, and that is because he chooses not to drop a dime on it to fix it. I know, I have worked with him in the past.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager