Warbird Information Exchange

Currently Canadian gov't policy is that "certain" national markings must be removed from surplus aircraft they sell (as stated in the latest CF T-33 auction info packet). I've seen several WWII warbirds in accurate RCAF markings so it's led me to wonder if it has to do with the issue of whether the aircraft type is still in active service with the Canadian Forces. I can't seem to get a definitive answer on this. I'd like to restore the original Canadian AF markings to my T-33--a quick and easy project since the paint scheme/placards are all original except for the US mil-style chevrons and tail number I put on it for now (and the mud-flap girlie stickers on the canopy). I'll keep making phone calls, but appreciate any insight in the meantime!

Paul you are operating in US airspace, doubt if anyone down here would care what you have on it. I wouldn't stray to far north though, that might be a different matter.

I think it has to do with in service aircraft. If your T-33 would sport one of the older schemes, it would be A-OK.

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Olivier Lacombe -- Harvard Mk.4 C-GBQB

Well... Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought with the arrival of the AETE colour-bird at Mountain View earlier this year there were no longer any T-33s in service with the CF?

Is this is actually the case, then I don't see how a regulation regarding aircraft currently in service would be applicable.

I don't see it being a big deal to put it back in original colours, especially since it’s not even based in Canada.

What I meant Ed was that if the aircraft sports a scheme very similar to an active service CAF aircraft, like the CT-133 looking like a Hornet or something.

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Olivier Lacombe -- Harvard Mk.4 C-GBQB

So does that mean that this guy shouldn't have his F-1 homebuilt painted up in CF low vis grey with rondels?





I think such stipulations can only be applied to types still on the CF register frankly. In the absence of regulations that deal specifically with this situation I would be weary of asking too many questions of the bureaucrats up here in fear of them giving an overly conservative answer for CYA purposes, or creating regulations to your disadvantage.

Sounds like an instance where adherence to the old air force principle “if you don’t want to hear the answer, doesn’t ask the question" applies quite well.

His roundels are not per regulations, so he's ok...

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Olivier Lacombe -- Harvard Mk.4 C-GBQB

I was told the T-33 that crashed this summer in Duxford, UK had special permission to fly in RCAF colors. It was bare metal/dayglo. Don't know if it's true though.
ABout homebuilts, I've always liked this one

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Magister Aviation
It's all in my book

Paul,

My guess is it has to do with liability during the ferry flight home. As in if there is an accident while leaving the CFB where you collected the aircraft it is clear that the CAF aren't the operators.

I'd go for it and I would love to see your bird back in its CAF colours.

Jim

P.S.: There was a department at DND called DIPS that protected CAF intellectual property like the roundel. I know they went so far as to contact a model decal maker and demand royality payements. I'm not sure what the status of DIPS is, but the model decal maker is back in business and is not paying royalties.

[quote="Edward Soye"]Well... Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought with the arrival of the AETE colour-bird at Mountain View earlier this year there were no longer any T-33s in service with the CF?

That's correct, there are no more CF T-Birds in service. I'll call around a bit more on this. In the end it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission. Thanks guys!

Hi Paul

As Jim alluded to, it may be an issue of copyright since the Government of Canada owns all those graphics. To use Crown owned graphics you require their approval but in general if it's for non-commercial purposes, it's approved. In the last few years there's been a real effort to control the use of Crown owned images as they were being used inappropriately.

One (un-official) explanation I had from DND regarding the use of current military markings on privately owned ex-military aircraft is that it may cause confusion (to the general public) when identifying aircraft and so isn't allowed. DND's communications department should have the answer to this, also at the bottom of every government of Canada website there is a link called "Important Notices", this will give you a bit more info on government copyright.

I don't know if this is the answer so if you get a definitive explanation, please let us know.

All the best,

Brian...

In the UK, any military scheme, or any scheme which does not promenantly display the civil registration requires permission from the CAA; and for recent types they want to see permission from the scheme's country of origin. I recall when the Old Flying Machine Co repainted their Fury into Iraqi colours it was an unusual case as they didn't seek or have permission from Iraq! (this was in the 1990s.)

That's how I recall it, anyway.

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Thanks Brian! I'll call DND's Communications Dept.

Paul,

Here's a flier that is based at Stead Field, Nevada, and other than the s/n missing, has been in this color scheme for at least the last two years, along with a small registration number under the tail.

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Roger Cain
www.sfahistory.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Stearman/


We must limit politicians to two terms:
one in office and one in jail.

Too cool...I wondered where this old bird ended up. N590RC is wearing the paint scheme of it's former operator, the National Research Council of Canada based in Ottawa (hence the name on the nose). It was a quasi civilian bird and was allocated a reg. but I can't for the life of me recall what it was (perhaps C-FSKM?). No amount of research on the web helped either. It's sister ship, C-FSKH, is still owned by the NRC but as far as I know has not flown since 2005.

Here's a pic of 'SKH.