Warbird Information Exchange

Eric,

NOMEX WILL NOT lose its protective capabilities since the protective properties are inherent in the polymer that is spun into the fiber. The protection is not due to surface treatments such as those used to fireproof other fabrics such as cotton. Whoever told you that NOMEX loses its protection in the wash was confusing it with other materials. As a chemical engineer who worked at the NOMEX site early in my career, I can assure you it doesn't lose its protective properities in the laundry. Depending on which particular fabric is used (I'm not current) it may fade in the wash, but that won't affect it's resistance to burning.

By the way, I am not a company spokesman and my comments shouldn't be taken as official. You should always follow the manufacturer's guidance.

Jeff

The problem that you run into with old flight suits is that they are worn out like an old pair of favorite jeans. As they become worn the capabilities diminishes. The AF also says that a flight suit can be patched/repaired only so many times before they consider it unserviceable. I understand that the military at times has more stringent rules than the civilian sector.

Mike Bernhardt
Aircrew Life Support
"Your Life is Our Business"

A nice thought!

According to our bomber bretheren, the thick necks came as standard equipment along with our diminished brain capacity, large sloping foreheads, and inability to advance beyond our primitive tools (Mk 82/84 and 30mm gun).

I don't remember it that way, of course. Unfortunately my wife tends to remind me of my former Cro-Magnon-like existence on a semi-regular basis -- particularly when something needs to be repaired. Personally I don't see the problem. I have four hammers -- small, medium, large and wrecking ball. In short, a tool for every job

Mike,


I agree totally with your statement. In my post to Eric's question I was thinking about the inherent flamability of the fabric to burn by itself.
As outlined in my post on page 2 of this thread, NOMEX is not impervious to an external fire ..... it buys you time (seconds) to escape flames without major burns. The extent of protection will depend in part on the thickness of the fabric. Any long term thinning of the fabric will reduce the length of time it protects you. If a particular washing regime thins the fabric, it will reduce the time the suit will protect you. Of course, washing is only one source of wear and tear so users should always pay attention to the condition of their suits.

By the way, I am not a company spokesman and my comments shouldn't be taken as official. You should always follow the manufacturer's guidance.

Primitive tools?! Man, I'd give half a nut just to get back to dropping snake and nape and strafing, rather than pickling off GPS-guided bombs from straight and level at 30,000 feet.

If you're going to go into "the sh*t", you might as well be a man about it.

I agree with you 100% Jeff. Me I'm just a fly-boy babysitter. A flight suit is designed to afford you a chance of exiting the aircraft with out major burns, not to allow you to sit in an inferno.

Mike
Aircrew Life Support
"Your Life is Our Business"

[quote="Randy Haskin].....rather than pickling off GPS-guided bombs from straight and level at 30,000 feet.[/quote]

While I would agree that pitching LGB's is no way for fighter pilots to conduct themselves (I'm kidding, of course), I'm quite happy to see you bored and home safe rather than possibly shot full of holes and making your family worry.

At least you're not flying F-16s otherwise I'd have to start with my Falcon jokes!
HILL TOWER, LAWN DART 01, READY FOR TAKEOFF ..... BINGO

OVER HILL, OVER DALE, ..... BINGO

OFF WE GO INTO THE WILD BLUE YONDER ..... BINGO

I CAME, I SAW, I BINGO’D

AND BINGO IS MY NAME-O

Hi All!

I just wanted to chime in about the "Civilian" flying part. Besides being either very very hot, or very very cold inside the ole 172, there isn't a "Civilian" in the world who would fly with me if I showed up wearing a flight suit, gloves, boots, helmet, and a parachute. I've actually had a conversation with a non-flyer that came around to safety and why I don't wear a parachute in the 172. I said I wouldn't have a problem doing it, and he said if I got in the plane with a parachute he wouldn't fly with me. Too dangerous. "If I thought that you or I would need to wear a parachute, it is to dangerous to fly with you."

Yeah, it was a dumb conversation and I am finished trying to convince non-pilots that it is cool to fly. Screw them. Me not splaining or convincing anyone anymore. I guess I am not a "people" person. They have to ask me now. And be nice about it. Gas and rental is expensive, I'm not wasting it on someone who needs convincing.

The other point is, I spent 350 dollars on a David Clark headset, Trying to provide 1 or two others to passengers is a pain, an expensive one. What am I supposed to do? Provide flight suits, gloves, boots, helmets, headsets, parachutes, and then make sure everyone is wearing "Approved" underclothing for the gear I am providing? All for a flight to lunch 30/45 minutes away. Yep, I'll get right on that........

I'll admit it. I wear shorts, tennis shoes, tshirt, and ballcap to fly. The only cats I see wearing "The Gear" on a 172 ride are the time building 22 yo flight instructors at certain outfits around where I live. I guess the green suit and cool patches impresses the natives. (The natives probably should be asking "Why do I get to burn alive and you don't?")

On the Warbird thing, everything said here is right, except, there is no way I would wear "Vintage" junk, on a warbird flight. It's junk. I know it's been said already, but let me say it again, it is junk. The other part of that is, you go ahead and sit or stand around the plane on the ramp in that stuff in freakin Salinas, just to be "Authentic". I'll give you 5 minutes until you wish you were crawling through a river of molten lava just to cool off a little. I'll leave that kind of fortitude to the reenactors.

I made a resolution for the new year, just like I did last year, I want to get a helmet (Just like Randy's in the flying in england thread) and a flight suit, for warbird flying. It's just that, sticking the VISA in the gas machine, makes you revisit your priorities.........

I will try to be strong, I swear...
Happy new year!

_________________
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Deep Thoughts,
Jack Handy

One piece of flight gear that’ll fit in any budget are those little yellow ear plugs. I wear them *with* a headset.

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Best way to contact me- email my last name @gmail.com

O.P., you think like I do. Robinson recently recommended that occupants of Robinson Helicopters should wear Nomex flight suits, helmets and the whole shebang in order to survive better to crashes. Well, duh! But do you really think that's feasible? "Sorry Mr. CEO, you can't ride in the helo, you don't have a Nomex suit and your helmet. Please take the limo."

I have one parachute. I wear it when I do formation alone. If I'm with a photographer who hasn't got one, it stays on the ground. No point scaring the poor guy off.

I too have a confession to make. I do fly in our Warbirds (trainers, but still) in something else than the flight suit. It's always long pants, leather shoes and cotton socks though. Am I that reckless? Will I haul all my gear along to go do a 20 minutes flight around? Nope. I do wear my helmet all the time, because birds are a nuisance around here.

Anyways, fly safe and have fun!

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Olivier Lacombe -- Harvard Mk.4 C-GBQB

plain & simple......... any post war born baby boomer near out sized there ww 2 era parents in stature & weight by at least 50 %. must be the transfat, or msg additives of us..... we just can't get our fat asses into daddy's uniform because were all a bunch of blubber butts today's teen towers over their 40 to 60 something parents well over 50 % !! land of the giants!!! i believe this topic was on another thread of past weeks ago too, equally as good as this 1, & well worth checking out. now........ when you all get off the wix tonight......... hit the fridge, grab a brewskie & stuff your faces with holiday goodies & leftovers

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

I agree with the safety issue but I just had to post this photo to add to the discussion. This is not a warbird, this is active duty Navy pilots in 1947. But I do suspect that they were not wearing regulation gear at the time!

I'll one up ya here Bill.
This is Lt Jim Reggington 44th Fs in his P-40F on Guadalcanal prior to a mission in Aug 1943.
He's wearing only shorts and tennis shoes!

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Don't touch my junk!!

I remember an IAC-sanctioned aerobatic contest some years ago in which you could get a little trophy if you flew your sequences in NOTHING BUT A SPEEDO and a parachute. Now that is safety first!

I really think that the various alphabet organizations (e.g. IAC, RARA, CAF, FAI, RSPA, ICAS, etc) could significantly further a "culture of safety" by simply requiring basic safety gear (Nomex, helmet, gloves...and maybe 5-point harnesses) for any pilot participating in any of their events. Want to do a fly-by at an airshow? Suit up. Want to go to a FAST clinic? Suit up. Want to take-off at Reno? Suit-up.

When you think about the safety gear that is now mandatory in every other motorsport, it is really pathetic how lax the sport aviation community is on safety. Even to drive my car in a low-speed autocross (around traffic cones in a parking lot), I have to wear an approved helmet.

Obviously, if you go straight in from 5000 ft, wearing safety gear isn't going to help. But the majority of accidents with warbirds and similar aircraft are some form of controlled/semi-controlled impact with the ground, be it a take-off/landing accident (forced or otherwise) or getting just a few feet too low during an aerobatics display or fly-by or river run.

In these types of accidents, simple safety gear and adequate harnesses will go a long way towards protecting the occupants of the plane. Plus, I think when you do "suit-up" as opposed to just hopping in with a t-shirt and a David Clark, you subconciously put on more of a "game face" and pay more attention to the dangers involved.

I have lost 4 friends in aerobatic/homebuilt/warbird accidents. At least one probably would have been saved by a helmet, and another by Nomex. I very nearly paid the ultimate price as well, and I am reminded of why helmets are important every time I look in the mirror and see the scars down one side of my face.

When someone gets hurt badly or killed in a crash, it affects us all, either directly or indirectly. I really applaud the positive safety discussions on this forum, and sincerely hope that the various flying organizations take steps in the near future to strengthen their stance on safety equipment. It will benefit us all in the long run.

FAST events already require the full chebang safety wise.

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Olivier Lacombe -- Harvard Mk.4 C-GBQB