Warbird Information Exchange

Gas station B17 pic

Just found this on the web

Since it was discussed awhile back for those interested.

So where is the nose ?

http://myaviation.net/?pid=00189127

Here is the web site for the B-17. For what its's worth. I haven't checked but my guess is that it is very old info with no updates.

http://www.thebomber.com/restoration.asp

well it looks like 98 was the last update

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www.tailhookstudio.com

Ahhhhhh. The bomber gas station. I used to love it when we went there when I was a kid. It's been in restoration for awhile.

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DEEP THOUGHTS BY KIDS:
"If we could just get everyone to close their eyes and visualize world peace for an hour, imagine how serene and quiet it would be until the looting started. Age 15 "


Deep Thoughts,
Jack Handy

The old bomber is in no way under restoration. I don't think it ever will be. It will continue to rot until it falls apart and comes crashing to the ground. All the owners see in it is something to pull people off the street to their business. The nose was removed a few years ago. It wasn't restored. It was in such bad condition that it was only good for a pattern for a new nose to be constructed at great expense by Shane Wease at Aurora Airport. I had a friend who was up in it at that time. He leaned on the radioroom bulkhead and fell through it! I haven't seen the new nose in a while but don't beleive that ever fitted out with any equiptment. It is the center piece of their small on-site museum. A few years back when they started the drive to restore the whole bomber. They put in their 501c3 paperwork in and started soliciting donations which they spent on the nose. The Feds denied the non-profit status request correctly seeing that it was a for-profit venue. The bomber folks we're forced to return all previous donations-OOPS!!! Reportidly in excess of $1,000,000. Before he died, Bob Sturgess, the guy that actually flew it to Troutdale (not Art Lacey) wrote a long letter published in Air Classics detailing the whole episode and provided paperwork showing that the AF retained ownership. Bob told me this was why the aircraft was never sold dispite repeated offers over the years for some large sums of $$$.

And the Air Force hasn't taken it back because?

If they don't care about this one and the one in Tulare they need to sell them or find them a loving home. It's a SIN to let them rot away or be run into by trucks.

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www.tailhookstudio.com

Tim,
I don't think there's anything left to take back.
Any attempt now to remove it would probably destroy it.
Or maybe I should say 'put it out of it's mysery'.

An old employer was up in Oregon back in the early 90's and he told me back then that poor B-17 was in sad shape, I would hate to think how far it has gone downhill since... It's a shame.

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Victory By Valor (Motto of the 20th Fighter Group)

Jeez, I haven't looked at the restoration site in a long time. When I first looked at it, I was under the impression that the whole plane was going to be moved. So it's been sitting there with the uncovered nose all of this time.....

You Guest-ed right!

That bad of a condition ?

B17's are sturdy birds.

Last year we...and well, this year we did a stop in Aurora with the 17 and 24. The shell of the flight deck area was still sitting outside. New longerons were made and are ready to fit...along with some new fuselage members. It won't happen anytime soon, unfortunately. We also paid a visit to the bomber itself. The entire center section has sagged and has been propped up and strapped. There is plenty to base a restoration project on and all it takes is the almighty dollar.

Jim

I think, but can't prove, that Lacey obtained only the right to display the airplane, paying $1,500 for that permission. The "bill of sale" presented by Lacey is incomplete but the going price for B-17s in 1947 from the WAA was more than $1,500, and it was not uncommon for these aircraft to be released for educational or memorial use (i.e. Memphis Belle) but in these cases the U.S. government retained title. He certainly did not pay $13,750 for this airplane.

With the Lacey B-17, I frankly doubt the U.S. government knows or cares that it probably owns the airplane, as it is doubtful they could prove it in court that they own the airplane. Good luck trying to find any paperwork on that WAA transaction in 1947.

I had conversations with both Lacey and Sturges about 1990. The Lacey version of how that airplane got to Oregon is a bit far-fetched. Sturges seemed to me to be quite straight-forward, reliable, and believable.

The Lacey family, however, is adamant in their insistance of the truth of Lacey's version. I recently got into a discussion with one of them and requested some documents, any documents, that would support the Lacey version (i.e. two bombers actually purchased, one to replace the one Lacey supposedly crashed, etc.). No response yet.

Interesting stuff. When I last saw the airplane a few years ago it seemed in poor, but not unrecoverable, condition. It remains a sad sight, nonetheless.

It would have been early March 1947 at Altus, Oklahoma. Supposedly, Lacey test flew an unidentified B-17 (solo) he had purchased and landed it gear up at Altus. It was replaced by sympathetic WAA officials with 44-85790, and he was charged another $1,500 for the second airplane. Very dubious, as far as I'm concerned.

Sturges' memory of the incident is that Lacey tried to taxi a B-17 at Altus, had no idea of what he was doing, and taxied into another B-17. The WAA provided another B-17 to Lacey. A dented B-17G smelted into as much molten aluminum as an intact one.

Most, if not all, of the B-17s at Altus in 1947 were brand new B-17s flown directly from the factory to the storage yard. The majority of the B-17s sold surplus in 1946 and 1947 came from Altus and were brand new airplanes.

Hey guys, I was wondering when the Lacey B-17 was going to come up on WIX. I was out there in June of 2003 and YES I have plenty of pictures if any one would like to see them just pm me. But I have to agree it is in VERY sad shape. When I was out there the nose was off of course but they had taken the time to put up nice sections of chicken wire to keep all of the lovely birds out of the airframe. (Still didn't help) Also, it seemed as though the famed gas station bomber has now become the Green House Protector. As I noticed that they were selling greenery under the poor girl. I had actually heard the EXACT same story that Jack is describing about the nose section. Brought it down to restore it and it was SO FAR GONE that it was only good for patern work. It is a very sad site. That poor girl needs to come down, sit and clean up for a while. Wish I had the bucks to give her the TLC.

Dave D.

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http://community.webshots.com/user/warbirdman_79

I wonder if there are other warbirds displayed for commercial advertising and what can be done to rescue them.