Tom Cruise and his P-51

[N3Njeff]

Is his Mustang really a former Tuskeegee airplane? I thought that Steve Cowell's T-6 was the only true Tuskeegee airplane left (although I've heard rumor of a Stearman that's still around that was once theirs).

Gary

THat stearman is very much still around, I flew in it. We got the records from Maxwell AFB to back it up. Actually we didn't know it was a tuskegee aircraft, we just wanted to get the records on it, and found that out through Maxwell.

The New England Air Museum has on loan from NASM a documented Tuskeegee Stearman. It was restored in New Hampshire about 8 years ago and on loan to NEAM until NASM wants it.

Link to pic: http://www.neam.org/inventory/airprofile.asp?ID=127

Jerry

New Hampshire????? You sure its not Vermont cause I am. It was restored by Mitch Spencer of Rutland VT. RIP mitch!

[warbirdfinder]

There are two other Tuskegee Stearmans, one is Sacramento and another in Las Vegas.

[Jerry O'Neill]

Is his Mustang really a former Tuskeegee airplane? I thought that Steve Cowell's T-6 was the only true Tuskeegee airplane left (although I've heard rumor of a Stearman that's still around that was once theirs).

Gary

THat stearman is very much still around, I flew in it. We got the records from Maxwell AFB to back it up. Actually we didn't know it was a tuskegee aircraft, we just wanted to get the records on it, and found that out through Maxwell.

The New England Air Museum has on loan from NASM a documented Tuskeegee Stearman. It was restored in New Hampshire about 8 years ago and on loan to NEAM until NASM wants it.

Link to pic: http://www.neam.org/inventory/airprofile.asp?ID=127

Jerry

New Hampshire????? You sure its not Vermont cause I am. It was restored by Mitch Spencer of Rutland VT. RIP mitch!

You're probably right! It could be Vermont! Where the restoration was done was passed on to me verbally back in 1999, so I might be remembering incorrectly. At least I'm close!
Jerry

[mustangdriver]

The one that I flew in is not painted like a Tuskeegee aircraft right now, but it will be soon.

[valdez25]

While regional airline hiring was going crazy, and regionals were hiring really low time guys, I was working for Flight Safety, training on the CRJ. I can remember in one instance training 2 F/O's who had less than 600 hours total time between them. Most of these low-timers had been through really good schools with expensive flight training programs. In fact, most of these pilots were the children of wealthy parents or super-smart, but most were both. I figured out that wealthy parents have 2 things in common, they're wickedly smart enough to have become rich, and they give birth to smart kids. Smart people catch on to things very quickly. Should they put their energy toward becoming pilots, they will most likely become good ones. We all wish we were flying a p-51. Lets's not be overly critical of pilots who are fortunate enough to fly our dream machine.

[ZRX61]

On a couple of occassions when Tom's P51 was returned to him it had grown "Maverick" decals on the canopy rail.... the guy who looks after his jets removed it..

[wacoykc]

The "1933 CROPDUSTER" he owns is actually a 1933 Waco UBF-2 rebuilt by RARE AIRCRAFT. He paid top dollar for it...around $300K. He was on Jay Leno shortly after he bought it and called it a WAYCO! All us Waco drivers just cringed!

[CAPFlyer]

Hey, I thought you said it like the town of the same name for a long time too, so I think most everyone can forgive that "snafu", especially since several very well respected airsho commentators continue to call them all "WAcos" instead of "Wacos".

[gary1954]

THis is the Stearman N62416, which is owned by the City of Tuskegee, ALabama, that is supposed to go into the Tuskegee Museum at Moton Field,
seen here on9-19-2008 Photo Gary Lewis

[EDowning]

Valdez25 wrote:

While regional airline hiring was going crazy, and regionals were hiring really low time guys, I was working for Flight Safety, training on the CRJ. I can remember in one instance training 2 F/O's who had less than 600 hours total time between them. Most of these low-timers had been through really good schools with expensive flight training programs. In fact, most of these pilots were the children of wealthy parents or super-smart, but most were both. I figured out that wealthy parents have 2 things in common, they're wickedly smart enough to have become rich, and they give birth to smart kids. Smart people catch on to things very quickly. Should they put their energy toward becoming pilots, they will most likely become good ones. We all wish we were flying a p-51. Lets's not be overly critical of pilots who are fortunate enough to fly our dream machine.

Thanks for pointing that out, I agree. One of the things that gets under my skin is when people show up to my hangars and all the "toys" and then assume that I have some how just been given the wealth to have them all.

For the most part I'll take a pilot with great judgment and mediocre stick and rudder skills, over one with poor judgment and great stick and rudder skills every time. Rich or poor doesn't really come in to it.

One place that wealth really does come into play is maintenance, I think many potential (and some current) warbird owners fail to realize what level of financial commitment is really required to have an absolutely first class maintenance program.

[Randy Haskin]

We all wish we were flying a p-51. Lets's not be overly critical of pilots who are fortunate enough to fly our dream machine.

The problem with applying this philosophy toward the Mustang is that it -- like some other aircraft (Barons and Bonanzas are the ones that come to mind offhand) -- has a long track record of people with more money than skill owning/flying them. The result has been these pilots/owners wrecking them and sometimes killing themselves (and passengers) in the process.

For these aircraft there is rarely a formalized training process with training standards at any level other than the FAA Private PTS.

It is NOT the same as some guys jumping into a crew aircraft and learning how to fly it as part of a structured formal training program like you would see with anyone operating a CRJ.

[Randy Haskin]

One place that wealth really does come into play is maintenance, I think many potential (and some current) warbird owners fail to realize what level of financial commitment is really required to have an absolutely first class maintenance program.

Excellent, excellent point.

[JDK]

Following up on the rich or not-quite-as-rich points, IMHO it's more about power versus a sense of reality - or lack of reality. An issue is those who've become successful and think they can over-awe the laws of aerodynamics in the way they have overawed their teams, enemies etc.

Powerful on the ground can make a lethal pilot if he's not prepared to learn and thinks he can dictate aerobatics and landings like a boardroom.

I've had dead-men-walking pointed out to me like that. Most of them are gone, and sadly taken others and usually a valuable aircraft with them and their ego or 'type A' personality into the hole.

[Bill Greenwood]

I must to some extent disagree with Randy. If you go back to survey the history of civilian Mustang accidents, wealth of the owner/pilot is not a determining factor in accidents and if anything it is a counter.When 51s first came on the civilian market after the war, there were a horrendous number of accidents, mostly fatal. There is a summary complied of these and when you read it, some of it almost sounds like a Chevy Chase movie except the loss of lives is not comedy. One guy was a regular commercial pilot without fighter experience, had only one short flight in a 51, and on his 2nd flight he was hired to fly across the Atlantic east to west. I am not making this up, of course he was French, therefore a genius by birth, and did not need anyone's advice. He made it to the first fuel stop where he torque rolled it. I assume much fine Cabernet was drunk in his memory. In those days, no type rating or special training was required legally to fly one. The accident reports do not refer to pilot income, but you get the feeling that many of these guys were of ordinary income, just more adventurous.

Eric mentions wealth as per maintenance. Most guys take pretty good care of their fighters, you can't divide the safe from unsafe by income of the owner. The ones with loads of money don't necessarily have safer maintained planes. Much of the extra funds is spent on cosmetic show stuff and or the latest in avionic gadgets which may have little relation to safety. If you stall a 51 in the base to final turn, it really doesn't matter if you are flying the Oshkosh grand champion or a surplus basic flyer. As for as I can tell Eric lavishes attention on his Skyraider. But much of it is the historic appearance type, like the arsenal of weapons hanging off the bottom( do you think this fetish started when Santa did not bring the Daisey Red Rider for Christmas?). None of that adds safety, may even degrade it some. It may be a little safer than the owner whose engine leaks some oil, but not a yes/ no thing. And safety in fighters in mostly a factor of the pilot ability and judgment, accidents are rarely caused by mechanical failure.

Last edited by Bill Greenwood on Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Randy Haskin]

The phrase "people with more money than skill" doesn't denote a particular income level...merely people with the means to own an airplane that exceeds their capabilities as a pilot. "Capabilities" includes judgment and discipline just as much as it does stick-and-rudder skills.