TSA Large Aircraft Security Proposal

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

Robbie Roberts wrote:

I know a kid(20s) that just flew back from the holidays out west, and realized a couple days after he got back that he'd flown with a small box cutter on his keyring! It was in a case shaped like a key, made out of plastic. Flip it over, and it had one of those 1/4" wide box cutter blades which has the snap-off segments... Wonder if he'd still be in stir if they found that... But then again, makes you wonder how they missed it!

Robbie

It's probably best you don't know how effective the TSA really is. It would scare the public to know the real truth.

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:48 am

warbird1 wrote:

Thanks for the clarifications JDK. I was going from my not so perfect memory.

My memory's not that perfect either!

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Anyways, my point remains. Politicians make wide sweeping broadly interpreted laws which can have far reaching consequences way beyond their initial intentions. That is the danger in this case with this proposal.

Absolutely agreed.

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Someone associated with Pink Lady wrote a thread about the grounding of their B-17 some time last year, stating that that season was to be it's last. I haven't heard anything since. Is it still operating or not?

I don't know. Sally B's operation shows the rules can be managed, however. I'm sure someone with better info on Pink Lady will be along shortly!

Quote:

It's probably best you don't know how effective the TSA really is. It would scare the public to know the real truth.

I do find it a good pastime to work out ways of subverting so- called security systems while I'm being delayed by them. Probably counts as a thought crime.

With quite a different meaning to the original: "I don't know what effect these men will have on the enemy, but by God, they terrify me."

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:16 am

Ryan and Rick, I am talking tactics mostly, not merit. If you or they can defeat the whole thing fine. But, if you really took a look at the danger then there is a lot more potential for someone misusing a G5 that is as big as and faster than an airliner, and can fly higher and IFR. Something like a Skyraider really is not the same threat.

I or we don't really know who is behind it and how strong their support is. It could even be the airlines trying to get some corporate business back from the rent-a-jets. Or just the Homeland Security types gone off the deep end. Maybe they are jealous of the business guys who get to travel better. Who knows?

Dave Downs · **Posted:** Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:00 am

spookythecat wrote:

It was mentioned at the Cascade Warbirds meeting that stricter policies weren't put into place after the Oklahoma City bombing. Maybe every person renting a U-Haul for the weekend needs the same background check.

IIRC there was a lot of talk about restricting/tracking sales of ammonium nitrate fertilizer and fuel oil (components of the bomb)...........until it was realized that farmers all over the country buy both of these products by the 100's of tons and thousands of gallons

Dave Downs · **Posted:** Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:09 am

Bill Greenwood wrote:

But, if you really took a look at the danger then there is a lot more potential for someone misusing a G5 that is as big as and faster than an airliner, and can fly higher and IFR. Something like a Skyraider really is not the same threat.

Bill - you and I and the rest of us here know that; what I'm worried about is that the thinking may evolve that since the Skyraider was designed as a weapon, it could easily be turned back into a weapon. If something that is not a weapon can be used as one, think how dangerous a real weapon would be....plus you have the added benifit of it not being a one-shot suicide deal.

Remember all the concern over crop-dusting aircraft and how they might be converted to spray poison gas.....of course little thought was paid to the technicalities of such a conversion, beginning with the transportation, storage and handling. VX and Sarin are very, very nasty substances.

I'm just raising these points as food for thought.

skymstr02 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:28 am

Bill Greenwood wrote:

there is a lot more potential for someone misusing a G5 that is as big as and faster than an airliner, and can fly higher and IFR. Something like a Skyraider really is not the same threat.

Prior to 9/11, who woulda thunk that crashing a 767 into the World Trade Center was a threat?

I doubt that terrorists will file a flight plan to their intended target.

RickH · **Posted:** Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:55 pm

We went to the last public meeting held here in Houston on Wednesday. A room full of very unhappy people. Out of 86 registered speakers not one was for this plan, poorly conceived, costly, and really won't make anyone safer. Apparently out of only 5 public meetings across this country, not one person who spoke had anything good to say about this NPRM. No one minced words in telling these people that they should throw this into the trash and then work with the aviation professionals to develop something useful using aircraft with a much higher weight class.

Recurring theme was that "we are not public carriers, and we know our passengers ". We don't need the government coming in and telling us how we can operate our personal property.

After a little research I was able to get a little background on 2 of the 3 panel members. I think you will be surprised, you might notice a definite lack of expertise in the aviation profession. Yet, these folks are trying to make this disaster TSA policy.

Quote:

Dominick Caridi
Director, Regulatory & Economic Analysis

Washington D.C. Metro Area

Current Director, Regulatory & Economic Analysis at Transportation Security Administration
Chief Economist & Director Reg Devel & Econ Anal at TSA/DHS
Past Principal Economist at United States Postal Service
Education New School University
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dominick Caridi’s Experience
Director, Regulatory & Economic Analysis
Transportation Security Administration
(Government Agency; 10,001 or more employees; Government Administration industry)

May 2008 — Present (9 months)

Chief Economist & Director Reg Devel & Econ Anal
TSA/DHS
(Government Administration industry)

2006 — Present (3 years)

Principal Economist
United States Postal Service
(Government Agency; 10,001 or more employees; Government Administration industry)

September 1970 — May 2006 (35 years 9 months)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dominick Caridi’s Education
New School University
1972 — 1975

Apparently the following lady's qualifications are that she graduated from the Naval Academy and she has been a Federal Executive. She presented a paper to the European Business Aircraft Conference last may that mirrors the LASP.

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Vicki Reeder
Asst General Manager - General Aviation at Transportation Security Administration

Washington D.C. Metro Area

Current Asst General Manager - General Aviation at Transportation Security Administration
Education USNA
Industry Airlines/Aviation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vicki Reeder’s Experience
Asst General Manager - General Aviation
Transportation Security Administration

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:02 pm

Glad to hear that. I really wanted to be there but couldn't make it work. Just got done with my spin training this morning and I didn't feel my vehicle is reliable to get to Houston and back safely. Good thing. I got stranded on my way into work a few hours ago.
Hope the TSA chooses to listen!

Ryan

Eric Friedebach · **Posted:** Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:19 pm

From today’s ICAS FastFacts email:

Quote:

ICAS ENCOURAGES MEMBERS TO OFFER COMMENTS ON NPRM

Some of the air show industry’s largest warbird aircraft would be dramatically impacted by a new “Large Aircraft Security Program” that has been proposed by the Transportation Security Administration. The deadline for public comments on this proposal is February 27, 2009. ICAS encourages all of its members to familiarize themselves with the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) and make comments prior to the February 27 deadline. Aircraft impacted by this proposed rule would include DC3s, B-17s, B-25s, Skyraiders, some Korean War-era jet fighters, and any other aircraft with a take-off weight greater than 12,500 pounds.

“As an industry, we need to be aware that this rule has the potential to do away with the active air show participation of a whole class of warbirds,” says ICAS President John Cudahy. “The operators of these aircraft are aware of the threat, but the rest of the air show community needs to become involved and express their concerns about the impact of this proposal.”

Operators would be required to provide criminal-history-record checks, including the fingerprinting of all flight crews. The names of all passengers would be checked against the government’s "No-Fly" list for every flight. Additional screening, similar to that at commercial airports, would be required of all passengers prior to boarding the aircraft, even for a media flight or incentive ride. Administrative and costly third-party security audits would also be required of every aircraft operator.

Comments can be submitted to the Federal Docket Management System several ways:

You can submit your comments electronically by visiting
http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/c ... -2008-0021. To add a comment, click on the top yellow balloon "Add Comments." Fill in your personal information (optional), and type your comments in the "Comments" box or attach a separate document containing your comments. When you are finished, click the "Next Step" button at the bottom of the page. When you are satisfied with your comments, click the "Submit" button at the bottom of the page.

You can also send your comments in via standard mail. Send them directly to Docket Management Facility, U.S. Department of Transportation, 1200 New Jersey Avenue SE, West Building, Ground Floor, Room W12-140, Washington, DC 20590-0001.

RickH · **Posted:** Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:22 pm

Several folks pointed out at the meeting that this rule if enacted went way beyond inconvenience.

It was pointed out that it violated the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 9th Amendments of the Constitution.

Eric Friedebach · **Posted:** Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:16 pm

A taste of things to come?

http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-ne ... no_cache=1

Quote:

TSA Conducts ‘Inappropriate’ Screening at BNA FBOs
By by Matt Thurber

February 3, 2009
Security, Business Aviation

Transportation Security Administration officials conducted unauthorized screening of passengers and flight crew at FBOs at Nashville International Airport in December and January, according to NBAA. The screening included checking “a number of pilots and passengers with wands and actual baggage searches,” NBAA vice president of safety, security and regulation Doug Carr noted in an e-mail to members.

Signature Flight Support confirmed the accuracy of Carr’s description of events at Nashville. A TSA spokesman told AIN that inspectors “did badge verification of employees and pilots but not any hand-wanding of passengers.

The bag searches, he said, were to make “sure that nothing that poses a threat is in those bags. According to Carr, “We can confirm that based on discussions held with TSA that this kind of screening was inappropriate and should not have happened. The local TSA officials were acting beyond the guidance provided by headquarters.

The TSA effort at Nashville stemmed from a TSA document called the Playbook, which outlined TSA plans for random screenings at FBOs and hangars, originally planned at Bradley International Airport in Windsor Locks, Conn. After NBAA raised concerns about the Playbook, the TSA decided not to go ahead with the Bradley inspections, Carr explained.

CAPFlyer · **Posted:** Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:02 am

Just an addendum, Steve Brown testified before Congress last week on this program as well.

http://www.commemorativeairforce.org/?p ... b03ed49d81

Dan K · **Posted:** Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:35 am

CAPFlyer wrote:

Just an addendum, Steve Brown testified before Congress last week on this program as well.

http://www.commemorativeairforce.org/?p ... b03ed49d81

Many thanks for that link. We now have some congressional assistance.

Fellow cheeseheads: I encourage you to send a personal note of thanks and encouragement to Wisconsin 6th District representative Tom Petri for his personal involvement and promised action against the LASP in its present form. Here's Rep. Petri's website:

http://petri.house.gov/

FORWARD WISCONSIN! WOOT! WOOT! WOOT!

Ztex · **Posted:** Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:13 pm

I don't know if it will help or not but Rush Limbaugh was talking about the stupidity of the TSA proposal today on his radio show....

I have written my reps have you?

RickH · **Posted:** Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:31 pm

I have talked to the appropriate Congressional staffers in the following offices, Rep Pete Olsen,Rep Sam Graves, Senator john Cornyn.

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