Warbirds and Leaseback situations

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Thu May 13, 2010 8:28 am

Do any of you know of successful leaseback (or lease-to own) situations on something like a Stearman or other smaller warbird? If so, I'd like to talk to them. I'd really like to find something along those lines and think it could be successful in a market I have an eye on. I really don't want to go into debt to buy a warbird at this point, but would be interested in trying to swing a lease if I could afford it.

Ryan

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Thu May 13, 2010 2:12 pm

Bump...

So no one here knows anything about the idea?

Ryan

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Thu May 13, 2010 2:30 pm

Doesnt seem like it.

Im interested in this idea as well Ryan. Seems like the best alternative to owning a warbird without ever owning a warbird.

JimH · **Posted:** Thu May 13, 2010 2:39 pm

IMHO...the ONLY way to operate a warbird is to make it pay for itself. Start a flight school in an area of 365 days of nice weather, take out a loan, buy a Stearman or a BT-13 and offer tailwheel checkouts. It would work. People flock to Florida to fly with Jack Brown, Stallion, Warbird Adventures and numerous helicopter operations. It gives you a global market to pull from with tourists coming in everyday as well as Americans. I bet if I went through and counted, out of the last 40 T-6 flights I've done, maybe 5 of them were American. It's incredible.

.02 over and out.

jim

bluehawk15 · **Posted:** Thu May 13, 2010 2:47 pm

Ryan,

It seems that Jim confirmed it's a good idea. We could get a few people to buy into a Stearman, then offer rides and tailwheel checks out of San Marcos and Stinson. The plane could be hangared at a very reasonable price in San Marcos, and have good quality, very reasonable cost, work done on it as well!

Several are doing it with T-6 types, but not a lot of Stearman. I know one outfit that used to make Port A during Spring Break and raked in the bucks.

bluehawk15 · **Posted:** Thu May 13, 2010 2:52 pm

Found this one for sale. Only asking $65K!

TT1760, R985 TSMOH860, Metallized fuselage, rebuilt 1966 cotton fabric-tests good, Clark center sec., front controls, Jasco Alternator, carburetor overhauled in 12-1988, Standard Airworthiness-Acrobatic Category, Hamilton Standard 2D30, overhauled July 1990, current annual.

Obergrafeter · **Posted:** Thu May 13, 2010 2:58 pm

I'll bet on that one, 1966 cotton or when was it last covered, no cottons' gonna pass after a few years even if it was sitting inside all the time. Might pass a Maule test, but no way its' gonna pass the rip test.

bluehawk15 · **Posted:** Thu May 13, 2010 3:27 pm

I think the main detraction from it's value is the metalized fuselage and civilian paint scheme.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Thu May 13, 2010 5:42 pm

JimH wrote:

IMHO...the ONLY way to operate a warbird is to make it pay for itself. Start a flight school in an area of 365 days of nice weather, take out a loan, buy a Stearman or a BT-13 and offer tailwheel checkouts. It would work. People flock to Florida to fly with Jack Brown, Stallion, Warbird Adventures and numerous helicopter operations. It gives you a global market to pull from with tourists coming in everyday as well as Americans. I bet if I went through and counted, out of the last 40 T-6 flights I've done, maybe 5 of them were American. It's incredible.

.02 over and out.

jim

That's exactly what I would dearly like to do, but I don't want to go into debt to do it. I'd like to lease-to-own ideally. I'd even be willing to do it with an L-5 if I could get my hands on one.

Ryan

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Thu May 13, 2010 5:45 pm

Insurance cost, terms, and pilot experience/qualification requirement is going to be your #1 problem.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Thu May 13, 2010 6:06 pm

Randy Haskin wrote:

Insurance cost, terms, and pilot experience/qualification requirement is going to be your #1 problem.

I already know it should work with an L-5. I've got the time and a quote range on insurance. Ran the numbers and talked to the insurance guy, just couldn't make the deal happen the first time. Still looking for options. I don't know about the Stearman, but I think it probably wouldn't be too much worse. My boss has been kicking the idea around and crunching numbers for several years. The key, I think, is not going broke until you get a minimum volume up, or have a significant maintenance issue. I've got a few ideas on that front, but that is a risk.

Ryan

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11330

Ryan, if you ever get out to Chino talk to Hartley Folstad, the Silver Wings Stearman wing-walking act pilot. He used to operate the Stearman Flight Center at Chino that rented out Stearmans for training, including solo. You might also be able to find a phone number for him on the internet if in fact they don't have a website.

I rented my Stearman out for a while dual only. Made a few bucks, but not many if you consider wear and tear.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Fri May 14, 2010 11:13 am

Does anyone have experience with aircraft owned by 501(c)3s being operated for rides? Besides the FAA issues, are there any implications for the non-profit status?

Ryan

bluehawk15 · **Posted:** Fri May 14, 2010 11:26 am

The CAF is a 501(c)3, and a bunch of our planes (like the Yellow Rose) do rides for hire. Given that, I would say there are no negative implications for the non-profit status. HOWEVER, that being said, we are allowed to do the rides under a waiver (see 6802H). So the organization you have in mind may have to apply for their own waiver.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Fri May 14, 2010 11:51 am

bluehawk15 wrote:

The CAF is a 501(c)3, and a bunch of our planes (like the Yellow Rose) do rides for hire. Given that, I would say there are no negative implications for the non-profit status. HOWEVER, that being said, we are allowed to do the rides under a waiver (see 6802H). So the organization you have in mind may have to apply for their own waiver.

Ok, I guess it might be a bit different, though, if you're just doing "discovery flights" or "introductory lessons" vs. riders in the back who are nothing but passengers.

Ryan

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