This is the place where the majority of the warbird (aircraft that have survived military service) discussions will take place. Specialized forums may be added in the new future
Thu May 13, 2010 8:28 am
Do any of you know of successful leaseback (or lease-to own) situations on something like a Stearman or other smaller warbird? If so, I'd like to talk to them. I'd really like to find something along those lines and think it could be successful in a market I have an eye on. I really don't want to go into debt to buy a warbird at this point, but would be interested in trying to swing a lease if I could afford it.
Ryan
Thu May 13, 2010 2:12 pm
Bump...
So no one here knows anything about the idea?
Ryan
Thu May 13, 2010 2:30 pm
Doesnt seem like it.

Im interested in this idea as well Ryan. Seems like the best alternative to owning a warbird without ever owning a warbird.
Thu May 13, 2010 2:39 pm
IMHO...the ONLY way to operate a warbird is to make it pay for itself. Start a flight school in an area of 365 days of nice weather, take out a loan, buy a Stearman or a BT-13 and offer tailwheel checkouts. It would work. People flock to Florida to fly with Jack Brown, Stallion, Warbird Adventures and numerous helicopter operations. It gives you a global market to pull from with tourists coming in everyday as well as Americans. I bet if I went through and counted, out of the last 40 T-6 flights I've done, maybe 5 of them were American. It's incredible.
.02 over and out.
jim
Thu May 13, 2010 2:47 pm
Ryan,
It seems that Jim confirmed it's a good idea. We could get a few people to buy into a Stearman, then offer rides and tailwheel checks out of San Marcos and Stinson. The plane could be hangared at a very reasonable price in San Marcos, and have good quality, very reasonable cost, work done on it as well!
Several are doing it with T-6 types, but not a lot of Stearman. I know one outfit that used to make Port A during Spring Break and raked in the bucks.
Thu May 13, 2010 2:52 pm
Found this one for sale. Only asking $65K!
TT1760, R985 TSMOH860, Metallized fuselage, rebuilt 1966 cotton fabric-tests good, Clark center sec., front controls, Jasco Alternator, carburetor overhauled in 12-1988, Standard Airworthiness-Acrobatic Category, Hamilton Standard 2D30, overhauled July 1990, current annual.
Thu May 13, 2010 2:58 pm
I'll bet on that one, 1966 cotton or when was it last covered, no cottons' gonna pass after a few years even if it was sitting inside all the time. Might pass a Maule test, but no way its' gonna pass the rip test.
Thu May 13, 2010 3:27 pm
I think the main detraction from it's value is the metalized fuselage and civilian paint scheme.
Thu May 13, 2010 5:42 pm
JimH wrote:IMHO...the ONLY way to operate a warbird is to make it pay for itself. Start a flight school in an area of 365 days of nice weather, take out a loan, buy a Stearman or a BT-13 and offer tailwheel checkouts. It would work. People flock to Florida to fly with Jack Brown, Stallion, Warbird Adventures and numerous helicopter operations. It gives you a global market to pull from with tourists coming in everyday as well as Americans. I bet if I went through and counted, out of the last 40 T-6 flights I've done, maybe 5 of them were American. It's incredible.
.02 over and out.
jim
That's exactly what I would dearly like to do, but I don't want to go into debt to do it. I'd like to lease-to-own ideally. I'd even be willing to do it with an L-5 if I could get my hands on one.
Ryan
Thu May 13, 2010 5:45 pm
Insurance cost, terms, and pilot experience/qualification requirement is going to be your #1 problem.
Thu May 13, 2010 6:06 pm
Randy Haskin wrote:Insurance cost, terms, and pilot experience/qualification requirement is going to be your #1 problem.
I already know it should work with an L-5. I've got the time and a quote range on insurance. Ran the numbers and talked to the insurance guy, just couldn't make the deal happen the first time. Still looking for options. I don't know about the Stearman, but I think it probably wouldn't be too much worse. My boss has been kicking the idea around and crunching numbers for several years. The key, I think, is not going broke until you get a minimum volume up, or have a significant maintenance issue. I've got a few ideas on that front, but that is a risk.
Ryan
Thu May 13, 2010 9:52 pm
Ryan, if you ever get out to Chino talk to Hartley Folstad, the Silver Wings Stearman wing-walking act pilot. He used to operate the Stearman Flight Center at Chino that rented out Stearmans for training, including solo. You might also be able to find a phone number for him on the internet if in fact they don't have a website.
I rented my Stearman out for a while dual only. Made a few bucks, but not many if you consider wear and tear.
Fri May 14, 2010 11:13 am
Does anyone have experience with aircraft owned by 501(c)3s being operated for rides? Besides the FAA issues, are there any implications for the non-profit status?
Ryan
Fri May 14, 2010 11:26 am
The CAF is a 501(c)3, and a bunch of our planes (like the Yellow Rose) do rides for hire. Given that, I would say there are no negative implications for the non-profit status. HOWEVER, that being said, we are allowed to do the rides under a waiver (see 6802H). So the organization you have in mind may have to apply for their own waiver.
Fri May 14, 2010 11:51 am
bluehawk15 wrote:The CAF is a 501(c)3, and a bunch of our planes (like the Yellow Rose) do rides for hire. Given that, I would say there are no negative implications for the non-profit status. HOWEVER, that being said, we are allowed to do the rides under a waiver (see 6802H). So the organization you have in mind may have to apply for their own waiver.
Ok, I guess it might be a bit different, though, if you're just doing "discovery flights" or "introductory lessons" vs. riders in the back who are nothing but passengers.
Ryan
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