B-17G's in Olive Drab .....

bomberflight · **Posted:** Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:27 am

Here's a sticky little problem that has me scratching my head !

Let's say there's a Douglas built B-17G-95 that needs a color scheme sometime soon.
Owing to the nature of the project ~ there isn't sufficient time to leave it in natural metal and polish it.

So the plan is to paint it in Olive Drab on top with grey underneath. ( No it won't be sprayed silver )

By the time this version of the B-17 was built they were being delivered to England in "NMF"

However ! The first arrivals with this finish were frowned upon by some Bomb Groups and they were painted
to blend in with the rest in formation. We'll never know if they had enough paint of the correct colors or if they
had to make do with a local brew that approximated them.

So here's the selection criteria .....

B-17G with staggered waist windows and a Cheyenne tail.

8th Air Force based in England

"OD" paint scheme

A good mission tally ~ which is documented and can tell the story of the Mighty 8th in WW2

Suitable Nose Art ( for viewing by all ages groups with a PG13 certificate in a national museum collection )

Photographs of nose art, crews, ground crews, whole aircraft late into its mission tally.

Discuss

Django · **Posted:** Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:16 pm

bomberflight wrote:

Owing to the nature of the project ~ there isn't sufficient time to leave it in natural metal and polish it.

Aww, but think how much easier it would be to identify new corrosion in the years ahead?! :lol:

Bomberboy · **Joined:** Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:36 pm **Posts:** 64

bomberflight wrote:

B-17G with staggered waist windows and a Cheyenne tail.

You could always do a swap with Sally B's tail.

That would give you plenty of scope!!!

Bomberboy

hang the expense · **Posted:** Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:45 pm

The painted shooshooshoo baby because of all the sheetmetal repair.Give 'em hell.

Jarink1 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:21 pm **Posts:** 117

I think I might have a good candidate.

"Miss Chief" from the 350th Bomb Squadron 100th Bomb Group
http://www.100thbg.com/spotlight/styling/pages/misschief.htm
It looks like she flew with the group from Feb 1944 until Feb 45, was briefly salvaged then flew just a little more from the end of March 45 until May.
I can't find any good photos showing the waist guns, but it's very likely they were not staggered. That might not be as noticeable as the tail, though.

The above picture might explain why it has a Cheyenne tail in this picture...

(photos from the 100th BG Website)

Ztex · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:18 am

Peter, You don't want much do ya? :lol:

Here's a couple of profiles I found. ...

43-37516 Tondalayo... Night Leaflet missions, crew lost on March 4, 1945
http://www.801492.org/Air%20Crew/Aber/AberCrew.html
http://www.kits-world.com/index.php?CONTENT=31
http://www.markstyling.com/1ad_b17s5.htm
_____________________________________________________
42-31225 SCHEHERAZADE This airplane looks to have survived the war and made it to Kingman for scrapping...
http://www.447bg.com/42-31225.htm
http://www.markstyling.com/3ad_b17s2.htm

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:58 pm

I actually like the current scheme.

The Inspector · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:45 pm

Miss Chief would be acceptably 'grunged up' (I like the bare metal Cheyenne position and the different 'patchwork' colors on the bird) and it will also show the heritage and pay homage to the Bloody 100th, the 8ths real hard luck outfit.

bomberflight · **Posted:** Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:30 am

Should I admit any personal preference ? Or should I be unbiased ??

I really like the 447th BG scheme of SCHEHERAZDE ~ 122 missions ~ well documented ~ color pics ~ video of the 447th on youtube .....

But lets focus on mustangdriver's comment .....

Quote:

I actually like the current scheme

I've spent quite a bit of time going thru every B-17 / 8th Air Force book in my library at home looking at the history of the real Mary Alice and I found this ~

Quote:

The choice of Mary Alice came about through the IWM's wish to give the restored aircraft a protective coat of paint, rather than leave it in natural finish
it had when delivered from the Douglas plant and kept throughout its flying life.

B-17G-95-DLs had the so-called Cheyenne tail gun position but this was not introduced into production while Fortresses were still receiving camouflage finish.
Most 8th Air Force olive drab and neutral gray coated B-17Gs with Cheyenne tail turrets had been modified in the USA or UK, but they were few in number.

On request, the writer produced photographs showing two such aircraft - the 401st Group's Mary Alice and the 96th Groups "Reluctant Dragon".
IWM chose the former. The history of the real Mary Alice was unknown at this stage but when it was investigated, it showed there could have been no more
fitting choice to represent the rugged dependability of the B-17

Source : Roger Freeman ~ the "Mary Alice" chapter ( Page 58 ) published in the "B-17 Flying Fortress Special" by Flypast in July 1999.

Mary Alice flew some 98 missions ~ but we keep finding the same 5 or 6 photos of it ~ taken just after the mission of July 13th 1944 when the tail was shredded.

The aircraft led a charmed life and was repeatedly damaged and repaired. And kept flying missions. So it's story tells of the bravery of the aircrew that flew
it and the dogged determination of the ground echelon in repairing it over and over again. Here's some examples .....

Quote:

A month passed before the Fortress was ready to leave. [ RAF Beccles ] A mobile repair and reclamation team had installed a new unpainted fin and rudder,
right stabilizer and elevator, new tail gun position, plus several patches on the left wing and bomb bay.

Source : Roger Freeman ~ the "Mary Alice" chapter ( Page 59 ) published in the "B-17 Flying Fortress Special" by Flypast in July 1999.

Quote:

The ground crew proudly pointed out that until her 66th mission on November 21st, when an oil line broke, she had never had to turn back for mechanical failure
and she had also survived some of the most punishing missions the Group had undertaken.

Source : B-17 Fortress At War ~ By Roger Freeman ~ Page 101

Quote:

The mobile repair men arrived to make Mary Alice airworthy again. The writer chanced to see the aircraft while this work was in progress and can confirm
that were nearly as many silver areas as camouflaged.

Source : Roger Freeman ~ the "Mary Alice" chapter ( Page 60 ) published in the "B-17 Flying Fortress Special" by Flypast in July 1999.

So ..... Mary Alice would be a fitting scheme on every level. And it would look stunning with a silver tail with the 401st BG's yellow diagonal fin marking.
But so far we've not seen conclusive published photographs of how it looked towards the end of it's flying career.

Painting it ~ as it was previously ~ would now seem to me as not being the fitting tribute that it could and ought to be for
all the people that worked on her and flew her.

If anyone out there knows of unpublished images of Mary Alice towards the end end of her combat history ~ now's the time to speak up !

Nathan · **Posted:** Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:24 am

Im all for Miss Chief. That is an awesome scheme!!! PLEASE! :drink3:

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:59 am

Quote:

Miss Chief would be acceptably 'grunged up'

Just please please PLEASE do NOT paint big black streaks coming out of the upper wing vents, like 90% of the weathered B-17 models I've seen. Even the art dept. for 'Memphis Belle' repeated the mistake when they "weathered" the planes for the 1990 movie.

Sorry for the knee-jerk rant. As a model builder, it's one of my B-17 pet peeves... :axe:

SN

Jarink1 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:21 pm **Posts:** 117

One more picture, this one in color!

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:36 pm

That's cool..just like the original Nine-O-Nine, you can see that the cheek guns were installed at the depot level, and painted with Olive Drab from a different source. It's amazing how differently OD weathered depending on who made it.

SN

bomberflight · **Posted:** Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:30 am

Thanks for the input so far :drink3:

Any other contenders ?

Come on some you out there in "lurker land" ~ let's see what you've got

Dennis7423 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:00 pm

Have a look here... from what I understand, Mark does his research :-)

http://www.markstyling.com/wwll_s_view_header.htm

Just scroll down and take a look at his profiles. Might give you an idea to start with, and then go from there looking for photos and whatnot. Enjoy!

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B-17G's in Olive Drab .....

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