Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Mon Jun 23, 2025 7:06 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:33 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club

Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 1:05 am
Posts: 3236
Is it a matter of degree?

If the paint job is absolutely perfect, to the correct station, over the right rivet, the accurate and correct shade of blue / white / red/ silver, or whatever color, then the honor paid to those who served, is at its maximum expression?

If there are glitches, a quarter of an inch off here or there, the wrong markings, the size of the insignia not 100%, then the owner / restorer, is not interested in honoring them just the same?

So, those who re-enact, if they are not wearing the proper type of socks, underwear, have long hair, or the angle on their insignia is wrong...are they dishonoring those they purport to represent?

I believe that we have taken this matter way too far. I also believe that not everyone who is flying a restored bomber / fighter / trainer, etc., has as their topmost priority, to honor those to serve, but rather, to preserve a piece of history and to keep it flying. Yes, the showing it, the history lessons, and the honoring of those who have served, is not diminished one iota in my mind, if the markings are not accurate.

Just ask a veteran from WW-II if he is offended.

Just my two centavos worth.


Tulio

_________________
Why take the best part of life out of your life, when you can have life with the best part of your life in your life?

I am one of them 'futbol' people.

Will the previous owner has pics of this double cabin sample

GOOD MORNING, WELCOME TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Press "1" for English.
Press "2" to disconnect until you have learned to speak English.


Sooooo, how am I going to know to press 1 or 2, if I do not speak English????


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:07 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:27 am
Posts: 2463
Location: Ellerslie Georgia, USA
I still don't care about the paint :supz:

_________________
Kind Regards,
Gary Lewis
J.A.F.O.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:29 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 5:42 pm
Posts: 6884
Location: The Goldfields, Victoria, Australia
I'm sorry, but neither "Kermit Weeks on a crutch!" or "By the hydraulic fluid of Stephen Grey's Bearcat!" works for me as a good blaspheme after hitting my thumb with a hammer. Maybe it needs work. Like my thumb, after the testing of this theory. :lol:

But this definitely gets the award of the most unintentionally revealing thread for some time.

Regards,

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:05 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:27 am
Posts: 2463
Location: Ellerslie Georgia, USA
Yup, I'm about sick-up and fed of this thread as well...guess I'll put it on ignore

_________________
Kind Regards,
Gary Lewis
J.A.F.O.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:03 am
Posts: 958
Location: Creve Couer, MO
When someone indirectly referred to warbird owners as gods, I just assumed that it must mean that all wix posters must be dyslexic.

_________________
Eric

"I spent most of my money on alcohol, women and skyraiders....and the rest of it I just wasted."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:13 am 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club

Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Posts: 4707
Location: refugee in Pasa-GD-dena, Texas
Huh? Bark! Bark! Bark! Paint ain't forever...nice to see and hear 'em flyin'! :wink:

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:45 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:35 pm
Posts: 1318
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin
JDK and EDowning summed it up well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:18 am 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:26 pm
Posts: 4969
Location: PA
Long story short...the info is out there on markings and paint schemes for these warbirds. It's a standard. We need to tell history correctly. Why do the accurate paint and markings croud always gets looked down on wix? Isn't being interested in warbirds also mean you are interested in the history? (This is NOT bashing warbird owners). It's discussing a standard that should be put into place. I can assure you some other forums would totally have a hernia if people did not care about paint and markings i.e. this forum has some niches.. lol

_________________
Shop the Airplane Bunker At
www.warbirdbunker.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:24 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1068
Location: Illinois, USA
I'm sticking to my green landing gear door policy!!
VL :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 5:14 pm
Posts: 365
N3Njeff wrote:
It's the owners wish to fly a biplane that was a cheap knock off from the era well let them write the check. :)


Huh....and I always thought the N3N was just a cheap knockoff of the Stearman.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:51 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:27 am
Posts: 2463
Location: Ellerslie Georgia, USA
vlado wrote:
I'm sticking to my green landing gear door policy!!
VL :wink:

:supz: :supz: :supz: :supz: I like that Vlado...I lost my coffee :drink3:

_________________
Kind Regards,
Gary Lewis
J.A.F.O.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:10 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:11 pm
Posts: 3160
Location: MQS- Coatesville, PA
Nathan wrote:
Long story short...the info is out there on markings and paint schemes for these warbirds. It's a standard. We need to tell history correctly. Why do the accurate paint and markings croud always gets looked down on wix? Isn't being interested in warbirds also mean you are interested in the history? (This is NOT bashing warbird owners). It's discussing a standard that should be put into place. I can assure you some other forums would totally have a hernia if people did not care about paint and markings i.e. this forum has some niches.. lol

Lets do a "For Instance" excercise-

Mr "Tastless" Warbird Owner ( not referring to any particular owner, living or dead and from now on referred to as Mr T) has a good year running his capitalist corporation.
He decides to spend $250K on his P-51 that year as his operating budget.
Mr T also wants to use that budget to paint his P-51.
(Budget Quality Paint Job)

Running the numbers we have-

Sand and paint-
$25K with basic markings, OD glare shield and silver overall, Codes on the side of the fus.
$2-3K to add a Nose Color, spinner and about 12". Std Europe late war
$6-7K if they are squares or diamonds and scallop down to the rear lower cowl. Std Europe mid war.
$5K to add all the small stencils.

Strip and paint add $20K to the above.

To get a show quality paint job add 30-40% to these figures.

Now if Mr T does the paint the wheel wells don't look the best, so-

8K for budget mask and paint MLG wells.
5K to remove the hyd lines and components so you can reach and cover areas better.
10K to Strip paint.
4-5K to make and install new hyd lines and overhaul the hyd parts you removed
It would look a little better if the landing gear legs were removed so the paint around that area could cover better.
20K to remove stress doors, fuel cells, MLG legs which then could be pulled apart and NDT insp and new seals installed.

But the engine was also high time so a Roush engine is maybe 160K to O/H, Prop O/H could be 8K or so. New hoses and stuff to install with labor another 5K.
Maybe we should paint the engine compartment too while we are at it.

The rudder will need to be recovered since you can't just keep putting layers of paint on fabric so there is another 2K.

At some point in time you have to say what is worth it. With all the normal costs of storage, insurance ect this 51 may not have any money left to budget to flying. What does Mr T do at that point?
To keep flying maybe he has to tell his daughter that you'll be working at Wendy's this year and college might happen next year.

It's interesting that Nose Art and Paint Jobs gets this much attention in a season that we have witnessed some high profile losses of aircraft.

I'm all for Jelly Beans and second rate paint schemes if it focuses resources and contributes to maintaining the aircraft in the highest possible condition for safe operation.

_________________
Rich Palmer

Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:12 pm 
Offline
FAC Pilot
FAC Pilot
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:24 pm
Posts: 932
Location: way down South
I know my O-2 doesn’t excite you like those exalted P-51s and Corsairs of which y’all so often speak. But it is a combat vet and is my “warbird.” The markings and the paint scheme are both representing original (albeit “shiny”) despite what most people think. And I have pictures of it at NKP to prove it. Those who know the history of the “night birds” in Thailand will understand. But I can be at a show parked next to purely civilian models dressed up with camo or AF gray pretending to be B models and have people accuse me of bringing the “fake” one. I patiently explain the plane’s 7 year history in Thailand and S Vietnam and then its 6 year history with ANG. Even show them rocket and bullet holes. Does it matter, probably not.

Warbird owners are not Gods…..I have met lots of the best and flown with some too. We are all just people enjoying our planes and hopefully giving the public a little bit of the history. Maybe some of you who think those P-51, Corsair, P-40, etc. owners act like “Gods” but it is because the way YOU perceive them and then attack how they display their planes. I’ve only met two people in my airshow career that truly believe they are “Gods” and both have been discussed over the years on WIX with good and bad comments. And no, they are not WIXers, past or present.

Even though this has not happened on WIX, I really don’t care if you complain about my paint scheme or the fact that I did not put the radio rack or military seats back in that the previous owner removed. I have my reasons and they are more important than “appearance.” Until those who complain start supporting our warbirds with checks, I figure it’s the same as complaining about politicians when you don’t take the time to vote.

Do I care about history…you betcha. Even though I enjoy flying, I fly airshows to honor the Forward Air Controllers who flew my plane in combat. I have met 26 of them so far…yes, 26 who flew MY O-2 not just O-2s in general. I also fly to honor all the Vietnam Veterans who were never properly thanked back in the day. So complain all you want about paint schemes and markings. At least I know the people who were there with my plane and others like it appreciate me telling their story.

Personally, I am sick and tired of this subject coming up on WIX over and over. Might account for my harsh tone here…..to you that complain, save your money, buy a warbird, learn to fly it, paint it in the scheme you deem historically correct, get involved on a museum board using decision power, whatever. Can we just cease and desist with the complaints about those who have already done it.

<Off my angry soapbox now>

_________________
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:24 pm 
Offline
Co-MVP - 2006
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 11:21 pm
Posts: 11471
Location: Salem, Oregon
I hate P-51s with that pukey blue paint!! But for some reason I love the paint on Bald Eagle :shock:
Don't know, maybe it's the shade of blue?? Whatever it is, it looks great. It makes me feel a bit dirty :shock:
Maybe there's hope for me yet :? :wink:

_________________
Don't touch my junk!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:42 pm
Posts: 12
This thread made me chuckle. Seriously?
When I win the lotto, I am going to buy a Corsair and paint it purple with a sharks mouth, invasion stipes, a swastikas on the tail and a Japanese meatball on the fuselage and maybe throw in some modern USAF marking if I can fit them. Why? because it would bring me great joy to piss off rivet counters and people who say "He shouldn't do that, that's not how it is supposed to look".


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Michel Lemieux and 59 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group