Skyhawk Gear Up 17 Sept 2015 (no injuries) Mesa, AZ

[bdk]

http://www.asias.faa.gov/pls/apex/f?p=1 ... LL+DOUGLAS

IDENTIFICATION
Date: 17-SEP-15
Time: 19:41:00Z
Regis#: CFGZT
Aircraft Make: MCDONNELL DOUGLAS
Aircraft Model:
Event Type: Accident
Highest Injury: None
Aircraft Missing:
Damage: Substantial
LOCATION
City: MESA
State: Arizona
Country:
DESCRIPTION
Description: AIRCRAFT, C-FGZT CANADIAN REGISTERED MCDONNELL DOUGLAS A4 SKYHAWK CIVILIAN, LANDED GEAR UP AND CAUGHT FIRE, FIRE EXTINQUISHED, MESA, AZ
INJURY DATA
Total Fatal: 0
Fatal Serious Minor None Unknown
Flight Crew 0 0 0 1 0
Cabin Crew 0 0 0 0 0
Passenger 0 0 0 0 0
Ground 0 0 0 0 0
OTHER
Activity:
Flight Phase: LANDING (LDG)
Operation:
Aircraft Operator:
Flight Number:
FAA FSDO: FAA Scottsdale FSDO-07
Entry Date: 18-SEP-15
Updated since entry: No

Anyone have info on the airplane or operator?

[Ryan Harris]

ex-Israeli A-4N operated by Discovery Air out of Canada. I think they do contract work with them similar to Draken International.

[Warbirdnerd]

More info and photos here:
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2015/09/i ... at_17.html

[bdk]

Looks like a nice jet. Hope it will be back in the air soon. Saw "fire" and expected the plane to have been consumed.

[marine air]

A couple of notes. IT appears to have 200 gallon fuel tanks mounted on the pylons. However, the middle tank may be a cargo pod or something else. Note no fins. Second, the Israelis were supposed to have added afterburners to their A-4's. I think this one has an afterburner, but am not sure. The A-4 holds 900 gallons internal. After engine start, the plane captain (crew chief) walks around and confirms as the pilot first pressurizes then depressurizes the fuel tanks. In flight the fuel burns out of the drop tanks first, then the wings, then the fuselage tank. SO those drop tanks "should" have been empty. And depending on how long the flight was, the wings "could" have been empty. So what happened?
There is a lot of black charring. I bet this airframe won't fly again, but hope to be wrong.

[Zac Yates]

I've seen a lot of photos of A-4s with centre pylon tanks that have no fins, so it could still be a fuel tank.

Poor thing! I'm glad the pilot's ok and that the damage to the aircraft - to my untrained eye - is limited to the tanks and nose.

[sandiego89]

A couple of notes. .....Second, the Israelis were supposed to have added afterburners to their A-4's. I think this one has an afterburner, but am not sure.....

Marine Air, happy to be corrected but I believe the extended tail pipe on some Israeli A-4's was not an afterburner, just an extension to protect against heat seeking missiles. Puts the heat further behind the vital parts of the aircraft. Better not to take a missile up the pipe.....

I am not aware of any A-4 with an afterburner.

One source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... -4-fms.htm
"Later modifications included the avionics hump and an extended tailpipe, implemented in Israel by IAI. The extended tailpipe gave greater protection against surface to air missiles."

[marine air]

It's probably possible to mount a fuel tank without the fins. Maybe the fins are only used after the tank is jettisoned. Two other possibilities are the refueling pod that carried a drogue that extends from the rear and a little bit of fuel. Also occassionally saw a cargo pod that looked to be converted from a drop tank. The access panel was on the starboard fore side of the tank and it didn't have fins either.
Concerning the afterburner. Our squadron would go to MCAS Yuma and Tyndall AFB every year and do some air to air training. I remember the pilots talking about the A-4 compared to some of the adversaries in training (early 1980's) THey talked about running out of "oomph" in the turns especially at altitude when dogfighting. I don't know if the Israelis put afterburners on just one prototype or all of them. IT would be an easy conversion, a plate, a fuel line that and very few if any moving parts. IT would have greatly enhanced the effectiveness of that aircarft in their small country. THe standard combat radius of an A-4 is 400 miles. Afterburner, if used would have greatly reduced that combat range, but would have allowed heavier and shorter takeoffs and enhanced transit speeds and dogfighting capabilities.

[Zac Yates]

Our A-4Ks had "buddy pod" drogue tanks and they didn't have fins, so I think you're right there.

Afterburners - never heard of any and Wikipedia doesn't list any, however I'm always reading about how one should never trust Wiki with anything.

[DB2]

Interesting reading on the Israeli A-4 tailpipe extension here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=Cyq9f ... rs&f=false

[BAJ]

Looks very fixable initially....pilot reported smooth landing.....drag chute and rapid deceleration.....damaged tanks seem the worst of it...lets hope left wing fire damage may be more cosmetic then serious structural issues.

[SaxMan]

IIRC, the IAF also modified their Skyhawks with a smoke dissolver for the exhaust, which made the A-4 harder to spot prior to an attack.

The IAF only had a total of 24 Super Mysteres, but less than that were reconfigured with the A-4 engine. A dozen of the survivors were eventually sold to Guatemala, again IIRC.