Warbird Information Exchange

http://www.asias.faa.gov/pls/apex/f?p=1 ... LL+DOUGLAS



Anyone have info on the airplane or operator?

ex-Israeli A-4N operated by Discovery Air out of Canada. I think they do contract work with them similar to Draken International.

More info and photos here:
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2015/09/i ... at_17.html

Looks like a nice jet. Hope it will be back in the air soon. Saw "fire" and expected the plane to have been consumed.

A couple of notes. IT appears to have 200 gallon fuel tanks mounted on the pylons. However, the middle tank may be a cargo pod or something else. Note no fins. Second, the Israelis were supposed to have added afterburners to their A-4's. I think this one has an afterburner, but am not sure. The A-4 holds 900 gallons internal. After engine start, the plane captain (crew chief) walks around and confirms as the pilot first pressurizes then depressurizes the fuel tanks. In flight the fuel burns out of the drop tanks first, then the wings, then the fuselage tank. SO those drop tanks "should" have been empty. And depending on how long the flight was, the wings "could" have been empty. So what happened?
There is a lot of black charring. I bet this airframe won't fly again, but hope to be wrong.

I've seen a lot of photos of A-4s with centre pylon tanks that have no fins, so it could still be a fuel tank.

Poor thing! I'm glad the pilot's ok and that the damage to the aircraft - to my untrained eye - is limited to the tanks and nose.

_________________
Zac in NZ
#avgeek, modelbuilder, photographer, writer. Callsign: "HANDBAG".
https://linktr.ee/zacyates

"It's his plane, he spent the money to restore it, he can do with it what he wants. I will never understand what's hard to comprehend about this." - kalamazookid, 20/08/2013
"The more time you spend around warbirds the sooner you learn nothing, is simple." - JohnB, 24/02/22

Marine Air, happy to be corrected but I believe the extended tail pipe on some Israeli A-4's was not an afterburner, just an extension to protect against heat seeking missiles. Puts the heat further behind the vital parts of the aircraft. Better not to take a missile up the pipe.....

I am not aware of any A-4 with an afterburner.

One source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... -4-fms.htm
"Later modifications included the avionics hump and an extended tailpipe, implemented in Israel by IAI. The extended tailpipe gave greater protection against surface to air missiles."

It's probably possible to mount a fuel tank without the fins. Maybe the fins are only used after the tank is jettisoned. Two other possibilities are the refueling pod that carried a drogue that extends from the rear and a little bit of fuel. Also occassionally saw a cargo pod that looked to be converted from a drop tank. The access panel was on the starboard fore side of the tank and it didn't have fins either.
Concerning the afterburner. Our squadron would go to MCAS Yuma and Tyndall AFB every year and do some air to air training. I remember the pilots talking about the A-4 compared to some of the adversaries in training (early 1980's) THey talked about running out of "oomph" in the turns especially at altitude when dogfighting. I don't know if the Israelis put afterburners on just one prototype or all of them. IT would be an easy conversion, a plate, a fuel line that and very few if any moving parts. IT would have greatly enhanced the effectiveness of that aircarft in their small country. THe standard combat radius of an A-4 is 400 miles. Afterburner, if used would have greatly reduced that combat range, but would have allowed heavier and shorter takeoffs and enhanced transit speeds and dogfighting capabilities.

Our A-4Ks had "buddy pod" drogue tanks and they didn't have fins, so I think you're right there.

Afterburners - never heard of any and Wikipedia doesn't list any, however I'm always reading about how one should never trust Wiki with anything.

_________________
Zac in NZ
#avgeek, modelbuilder, photographer, writer. Callsign: "HANDBAG".
https://linktr.ee/zacyates

"It's his plane, he spent the money to restore it, he can do with it what he wants. I will never understand what's hard to comprehend about this." - kalamazookid, 20/08/2013
"The more time you spend around warbirds the sooner you learn nothing, is simple." - JohnB, 24/02/22

Interesting reading on the Israeli A-4 tailpipe extension here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=Cyq9f ... rs&f=false

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IIRC, the IAF also modified their Skyhawks with a smoke dissolver for the exhaust, which made the A-4 harder to spot prior to an attack.

The IAF only had a total of 24 Super Mysteres, but less than that were reconfigured with the A-4 engine. A dozen of the survivors were eventually sold to Guatemala, again IIRC.