Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:49 am
Tell you what, but if it wasn't for the guys at AIR CLASSICS Magazine most of you people won't know squat about these warbirds.
Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:54 am
DIK SHEPHERD wrote:Tell you what, but if it wasn't for the guys at AIR CLASSICS Magazine most of you people won't know squat about these warbirds.
I used to really like Scooby Doo cartoons when I was a kid, too...but now that I've grown up I realize that it's not Emmy material.
Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:55 am
Not really Dik.
Try Paul Coggan - Warbirds Worldwide, Tim Savage - Warbird Digest from the 90s and today, and Aeroplane 1972 - date. Some like Flypast and the Ian Allan magazines. Classic Wings does a worthy job now.
Air Classics and stable have done good work at times, but there are issues with them, to say the least.
If you want a real tribute, try the pioneering work of Les Hunt with his books, later Bob Ogden with his Aircraft Museums of the World series, Ken Ellis with Wrecks and Relics, and so forth.
Oh, and the internet to help me find and avoid attitudes of your quality.
Try Paul Coggan - Warbirds Worldwide, Tim Savage - Warbird Digest from the 90s and today, and Aeroplane 1972 - date. Some like Flypast and the Ian Allan magazines. Classic Wings does a worthy job now.
Air Classics and stable have done good work at times, but there are issues with them, to say the least.
If you want a real tribute, try the pioneering work of Les Hunt with his books, later Bob Ogden with his Aircraft Museums of the World series, Ken Ellis with Wrecks and Relics, and so forth.
Oh, and the internet to help me find and avoid attitudes of your quality.
Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:56 am
Raven wrote:Warbird Digest from the 90s and today
WD was around in the 90s?
Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:10 am
Randy Haskin wrote:Raven wrote:Warbird Digest from the 90s and today
WD was around in the 90s?
Sorry, I wasn't quite clear. No, WW was. Full quote: "Paul Coggan - Warbirds Worldwide, Tim Savage - Warbird Digest from the 90s and today" would perhaps make better sense as 'WW from the late 1980s and 1990s, and WD for the 21st century.'
Regards
Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:31 am
I can't immediately think of any not suggested, although I'm certain there are many, but one thing has struck me.
Hamish Mahaddie for BofB was mentioned, and was one of the earlier pioneers in preservation. I suspect there were some at a similar time in the US, although being from a litle island I don't know as much about them as I possibly should.
Richard Ormonde Shuttleworth started his collection before WWII. That's pretty impressive by any standards and I would think is likely to be the first.
Hamish Mahaddie for BofB was mentioned, and was one of the earlier pioneers in preservation. I suspect there were some at a similar time in the US, although being from a litle island I don't know as much about them as I possibly should.
Richard Ormonde Shuttleworth started his collection before WWII. That's pretty impressive by any standards and I would think is likely to be the first.
Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:10 pm
I forgot, most of you weren't around or were in diapers back in the 60s and 70s and couldn't read, or wipe your own ass. For years, AIR CLASSICS was THE magazine for warbird info and if it wasn't for them there probably wouldn't have been a Warbird movement.
Back when I started, in the mid 60s, you could still buy FG-1s from the Navy for less than $500.00 flyaway. F8Fs went for $1500.00 and F4U-4s for less than $1000.00. But nobody wanted them, other than a few people like Ed Maloney and a guy named Bob Bean.
Air Classics came along, and were the only ones, with stories and, especially pictures, of the different aircraft. They made the aircraft interesting and exciting. They gave people the information and the initiative to go out and save some of these birds, although for most it was too late. And they're still doing it today, 40 years later. I guarantee that there isn't a single warbird owner/operator that wouldn't like or doesn't want to have pictures of their bird in Air Classics magazine. Sure, there are magazines out there, NOW, that might do a better job. But they wouldn't even be around if it wasn't for Air Classics.
And for dorks like some of you who like to ignore them and what they've done, and make fun of them, it just goes to show how far your head is up your - you know what.
So, you've got issues with them, so what. They've put out twelve every year. Just what have you done to further the cause? Did you go to some air show? Big whoppee.
Have a nice day.
Back when I started, in the mid 60s, you could still buy FG-1s from the Navy for less than $500.00 flyaway. F8Fs went for $1500.00 and F4U-4s for less than $1000.00. But nobody wanted them, other than a few people like Ed Maloney and a guy named Bob Bean.
Air Classics came along, and were the only ones, with stories and, especially pictures, of the different aircraft. They made the aircraft interesting and exciting. They gave people the information and the initiative to go out and save some of these birds, although for most it was too late. And they're still doing it today, 40 years later. I guarantee that there isn't a single warbird owner/operator that wouldn't like or doesn't want to have pictures of their bird in Air Classics magazine. Sure, there are magazines out there, NOW, that might do a better job. But they wouldn't even be around if it wasn't for Air Classics.
And for dorks like some of you who like to ignore them and what they've done, and make fun of them, it just goes to show how far your head is up your - you know what.
So, you've got issues with them, so what. They've put out twelve every year. Just what have you done to further the cause? Did you go to some air show? Big whoppee.
Have a nice day.
Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:56 pm
Ahhh Dik, you silver tongued rascal. I was well past diapers in the mid-60's
and enjoyed the early warbird happenings of the day. I often looked foreward to
the next issue waiting for news of CAF's next aquisition, Million Dollar Valley
history etc. But the publication over time has changed. There are folks who'd like
there materials back which were loaned, or payment for articles they contributed.
So there is a certain amount of anquish over a certain publication.
This website now has a disclaimer because for liability purposes due to
comments of related history and a threatened legal action...which really
was nothing but tempest-in-teapot stuff.
Really nothing to get wrapped roun' the axle about though...
and enjoyed the early warbird happenings of the day. I often looked foreward to
the next issue waiting for news of CAF's next aquisition, Million Dollar Valley
history etc. But the publication over time has changed. There are folks who'd like
there materials back which were loaned, or payment for articles they contributed.
So there is a certain amount of anquish over a certain publication.
This website now has a disclaimer because for liability purposes due to
comments of related history and a threatened legal action...which really
was nothing but tempest-in-teapot stuff.
Really nothing to get wrapped roun' the axle about though...
Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:08 pm
Dik, stop being a stereo type, it makes you look bad.
As for Air Classics and Michael O'Leary, even with all the issues people have had and I myself have had with Mr. O'Leary I would still consider him and the magazine for the Hall of Fame. Air Classics have been around for 40 years or so and that alone says alot. I throughly enjoy going through the older issues and this magazine was there before there was a warbird movement. While it might not be as hard-core warbird as some of the newer mags it still deserves some respect and I'm sure the majority of us do respect it, if not in it's current incarnation then for what it once was.
One thing to remember, these individuals were not saints. They have good points and bad points in thier history. The only thing that matters is what the accomplished regarding warbirds.
As for Air Classics and Michael O'Leary, even with all the issues people have had and I myself have had with Mr. O'Leary I would still consider him and the magazine for the Hall of Fame. Air Classics have been around for 40 years or so and that alone says alot. I throughly enjoy going through the older issues and this magazine was there before there was a warbird movement. While it might not be as hard-core warbird as some of the newer mags it still deserves some respect and I'm sure the majority of us do respect it, if not in it's current incarnation then for what it once was.
One thing to remember, these individuals were not saints. They have good points and bad points in thier history. The only thing that matters is what the accomplished regarding warbirds.
Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:06 am
Back to the subject how about Nelson Ezell.
Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:05 am
I'll vote for the late "Steve Hinton"
Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:48 am
Toddb wrote:I'll vote for the late "Steve Hinton"
Steve Hinton is very much still with us and far from being late... unless its late for dinner due to flying so much!
???
Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:58 am
And for dorks like some of you who like to ignore them and what they've done, and make fun of them, it just goes to show how far your head is up your - you know what.
I guess I'm a dork then because I wouldn't look at AC if you paid me. I've seen them in action.
Air Classics came along, and were the only ones, with stories and, especially pictures, of the different aircraft. They made the aircraft interesting and exciting. They gave people the information and the initiative to go out and save some of these birds, although for most it was too late. And they're still doing it today, 40 years later. I guarantee that there isn't a single warbird owner/operator that wouldn't like or doesn't want to have pictures of their bird in Air Classics magazine. Sure, there are magazines out there, NOW, that might do a better job. But they wouldn't even be around if it wasn't for Air Classics.
Rah-Rah-Rah
Last edited by Jack Cook on Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
???
Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:58 pm
I'd rather be a dork than a DIK (spelled incorrectly also)!
Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:18 pm
Guys,
Careful on the personal attacks... we know this isn't the place for it.
We all have our opinions on what we prefer and why we prefer it. I think that arguement has been made and we each are entitled to those opinions. It has been shown that Air Classics and Challenge Publications did indeed help the warbird community in the early days and still to this day does as well. We all may have our opinions to what they signify to us, but yes, they were around well before many of us knew about warbirds and for us that were around, they did a service where none had been before.
Keeping that in mind, I think some of us just have to agree to disagree and will make their thoughts count when voting starts on the issue.
I can't remember a time when name calling ever changed anyones mind about a topic... and I don't think we will be the first here.
Let's just get back to the topic of the post. Thanks.
Careful on the personal attacks... we know this isn't the place for it.
We all have our opinions on what we prefer and why we prefer it. I think that arguement has been made and we each are entitled to those opinions. It has been shown that Air Classics and Challenge Publications did indeed help the warbird community in the early days and still to this day does as well. We all may have our opinions to what they signify to us, but yes, they were around well before many of us knew about warbirds and for us that were around, they did a service where none had been before.
Keeping that in mind, I think some of us just have to agree to disagree and will make their thoughts count when voting starts on the issue.
I can't remember a time when name calling ever changed anyones mind about a topic... and I don't think we will be the first here.
Let's just get back to the topic of the post. Thanks.