Warbird Information Exchange

You mean Frank Sanders, the airshow pilot who flew with with one eye tied behind his back?

How do you determine your "leagues"?

Well, I think all of us who watch aerobatics learn to distinguish the very very good from those few whose skill almost borders on the supernatural. The way Hoover and Lefty flew, you knew you would never see anyone fly a P-51 or P-38 like that ever again. Jerry flew Spits like that. Those three guys constitute a "league" in my estimation. I never saw another pilot fly a warbird with that level of confidence and control. You can name a lot of great warbird pilots, and I've seen most of 'em and agree they're great, but these guys are at the tip of the pyramid. Hoover and Lefty are justly famous; Jerry, unjustly, is not. And you may not agree with me, but the crowd at Oshkosh that day did.

August

Not even Ray Hanna?

Never saw Hanna and I greatly regret it. From what I have heard, he may have been the one Spitfire pilot in the UK as good as Jerry.

August

I recall a few years back we took the B-25 to Arlington and Craig McCaw had it on display there. The mech looking after it (Peter __? he's got a shop there) said it had serious issues and needed a complete rebuilt. He (in case you never heard of them they sold their Seattle based cellular company to AT&T for about a zillion dollars!) bought it because one of his brothers was having a million $$ T-28 rebuilt and wanted something for himself. His pilot went south to pick it up and scared himself silly trying to fly it. Bud Granley then flew it up. Not wanting to spend the $$$ required to rebuild it, they had it for sale for a time then loaned it to MOF where it sits. BTW Victoria Air Maint. did the t-28 and it was gorgious but I've never heard of it being flown since.

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Don't touch my junk!!

Excuse my ignorance here, but what is the main issue of MK923's physically
poor condition? Is she still held together (loosely, I presume from some
reports) with magnesium rivets? Or are there more customary basic airframe and systems
fatigue and corrosion problems to be addressed?

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He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

From what I have heard it is due to loose rivets and needs to be re-skined also after the sale of MK923 to the new owners MK923 was ground looped twice, once was some what serious putting the Spit through a ditch and between 2 trees ( not sure who was flying it )

Also since MK923 is a very original airframe with real WWII combat under its belt, I have heard it won't be re-skined because they want to keep it original ( just what I heard )

Also as for Jerry wearing out his welcome, Yes Jerry is very determined to have things his way when he displayed the Spit but after all the hours I have talking with himsome of the air show organizers treated him pretty crappy ( promising him a hanger for storage of the Spit at the show then when he arrived no hangers avaliable and wanting him to leave Cliff's Spit on the ramp all night, Jerry whould just leave )

As for Jerry's flying, well I grew up watching him in my back yard and at all the local shows I attended and since been to lots of Warbird shows and have Never seen anyone even come close to performing in a Spit or any other Warbird the way BIlling did. Far as I'm concerned the low level acrobatics in Vintage WWII aircraft is pretty much dead ( Insurane, lots of rules, wear and tear on the aircraft )

If you would like to see some of Billing flying the Spit check out these video's

http://www.jerrybilling.com/jerry_billing_video.htm

Also for some of the troublesJerry experianced with the Spit ( in his own words )
http://www.jerrybilling.com/jerry_billi ... tfires.htm

Cheers Dave C

Regarding Cliff, The movie "The Pilot" is excellent. It's not about Warbirds, but it's an awesome airline movie. Here's a bio from the internet. THE PILOT FACTS

He's the best pilot in the sky, drunk or sober, but one time he pressed his luck too far.

Cast Cliff Robertson, Diane Baker, Frank Converse, Gordon MacRae, Dana Andrews

Director(s) Cliff Robertson

Genre(s) Dramas, Drama, High Flying, Substance Abuse

Release Year 1979

Running Time 92 minutes

met cliff at the 03 aviation hall of fame event. he was quite gracious, 110 % a gentleman!!! he's been a screen idle of mine for decades. he took some bad public relations years ago, to the point of where he was near blacklisted from making movies, but it was all unfounded info. he's a true a screen legend & a stand up aviation historian!!!

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Loved him in 633 Squadron. Class actor, classic aircraft.

Jeff

I'm really curious to know why this aircraft would need to be reskinned rather than just replacing the rivets.

How the Spit looked in 2003:

Are you sure about Jerry flying a Spitfire solo act in 1987 at Oskosh? Could it have been there earlier, or at another show? I remember Bud Granley with his usual expert flying about that time at Ohskosh, and also the excellent show by Elliot Cross in Rayborn Thompson's Spit last year. I only wish it had flow in the Warbird show with the other fighters, in addition to the one acro flight. I met Cliff at the Carefree,Az. reunion and he seemed like a nice down to earth guy. He does a lot of soaring.

I never saw another pilot fly a warbird with that level of confidence and control. You can name a lot of great warbird pilots, and I've seen most of 'em and agree they're great, but these guys are at the tip of the pyramid. Hoover and Lefty are justly famous; Jerry, unjustly, is not. And you may not agree with me, but the crowd at Oshkosh that day did

I never saw Jerry fly but I did get the pleasure of seeing both Mr.Hoover and Mr. Garner/Gardner?fly at various functions over the years.However,the most impressive routine that I have ever seen was when Mr. Frank Tallman wrung out his Grumman Duck at the Mojave Air Races in 1974. The manuevers that he pulled with that pudgy Biplane were really incredible and some seemed insane and near impossible.Mere words cannot do it justice , it really had to be seen to be believed.Maybe the fact that I was 13 yrs old and was a big fan of Mr. Tallman biases my memory but I really dont think so. Tim

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"WHAT ME WORRY?"

Seeing that great shot of MK923 in the museum, that under surface 'blue' still offends.

I had prepared all the painting details/spec for Bill Ross when he undertook major refurbishment of MK923 for Cliff Robertson in the mid 1970's - works paint drawings, colour chips and templates for the codes. I researched at our then public Record Office and established that MK923 was aircraft Z of 5J/126 Squadron RAF. So we could get it exactly as it was when operational from May to December 1944.

When it came to application Jerry Billing assured Bill that I was wrong, it was not 'Medium Sea Grey', as I had directed, but a duck egg blue.

Good old Jerry, too much time in the Mediterranean sun in Malta flying Med theatre Spitfires with 'Azure Blue' undersides.

At this time I was working for GM/Vauxhall here in the UK and I was mightily impressed to be tracked down by phone during my daily travels within the company (no mobiles back then) to receive a call from Cliff in the US to thank me. Subsequently I too, like Bill Greenwood, met him at the Carefree private function. My wife is a big fan and I noted how he worked the hanger gently, talking to every group in the course of an hour or so. You don't have to do that - a gentleman.

It is my understanding talking to both Jerry Billing and Gordon Plaskett, who had coached him in the TF-51, that although the longest private owner of a Spitfire airworthy or otherwise he had never flown it.

PeterA